Yahoo Archive - 2009

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Messsage #: 166
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:40:59 -0500
From: "Aram, Richard B" 
Subject: Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark
Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not
appear to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend
some time hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some
suggestions and help if they have used it recently.

Thanks!

Rich Aram
Geologist
occasional geospelunkologist
occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected]

Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not appear to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend some time hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some suggestions and help if they have used it recently.

Thanks!

Rich Aram

Geologist

occasional geospelunkologist

occasional speleocartographer 

[email protected]


Messsage #: 167
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 01:21:21 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,

I sent most of this information in a private email, but I thought some of
the other cavers might benefit from these answers.

Thanks for your letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page and
rewritten a section that gives detailed information on how to download and
use the DEM files. I would start by reading this section of the Compass web
page:

http://www.fountainware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm

I think you should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis and
Clark Caverns. If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know which
ones you need. They are usually specified by the same names used for the
7.5-minute topographic maps.

If you have any other questions, feel free to write.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark
Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not appear
to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend some time
hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some suggestions and
help if they have used it recently.

Thanks! 

Rich Aram 
Geologist 
occasional geospelunkologist 
occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }


Messsage #: 168
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:01:40 -0500
From: "Aram, Richard B" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Hi Larry,
 
Thanks very much for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  
 
I successfully located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.
Unfortunately, the area of interest was right on the seam between two
maps, but lo and behold, you already anticipated that and had a good fix
available in your DEM Reader.  I haven't been able to get to that work
yet:  I get an error message, I/O Error 103.  Do you have a translation
or recommendation for me to try?  Both files will load and display
successfully by themselves.
 
thanks!
 
Rich Aram

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I sent most of this information in a private email, but I thought some
of the other cavers might benefit from these answers.

Thanks for your letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page
and rewritten a section that gives detailed information on how to
download and use the DEM files. I would start by reading this section of
the Compass web page:

http://www.fountainware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm

I think you should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis
and Clark Caverns. If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know
which ones you need. They are usually specified by the same names used
for the 7.5-minute topographic maps.

If you have any other questions, feel free to write.

Larry

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark
Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not
appear to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend
some time hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some
suggestions and help if they have used it recently.

Thanks! 

Rich Aram 
Geologist 
occasional geospelunkologist 
occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 

Hi 
Larry,
 
Thanks 
very much for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

 
I 
successfully located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.  Unfortunately, 
the area of interest was right on the seam between two maps, but lo and behold, 
you already anticipated that and had a good fix available in your DEM 
Reader.  I haven't been able to get to that work yet:  I get an error 
message, I/O Error 103.  Do you have a translation or recommendation for me 
to try?  Both files will load and display successfully by 
themselves.
 
thanks!
 
Rich 
Aram
 
 

From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry 
FishSent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 AMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,

I sent most of this 
information in a private email, but I thought some of the other cavers might 
benefit from these answers.

Thanks for your letter. 
I have updated the links on the Compass web page and rewritten a section that 
gives detailed information on how to download and use the DEM files. I would 
start by reading this section of the Compass web page:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm

I think you should be 
able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis and Clark Caverns. If you have 
any problems the quadrangles, let me know which ones you need. They are usually 
specified by the same names used for the 7.5-minute topographic 
maps.

If you have any other 
questions, feel free to write.

Larry

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, 
Richard BSent: Friday, March 
13, 2009 3:41 PMTo: 
[email protected]: [compass-users] Access to Digital 
Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

I 
wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark Caverns in 
Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does 
not appear to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to 
spend some time hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some 
suggestions and help if they have used it recently.
Thanks! 
Rich Aram Geologist occasional 
geospelunkologist occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 


Messsage #: 169
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:14:01 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,

The problem is probably caused by anomalies in the files right at the edge
between the two maps. For example, if the edge of one map has 250 points and
the edge of the adjacent map has 270, the program has a problem trying to
resolve the difference. (I have seen very strange data in these files.)

Send me the two DEM files and I will look at data and try to make changes in
the DEM Reader that will handle the problem. I have been successful at doing
this in the past.

Please zip both files and send them to this email address:

 [email protected]

It has a large in-box and won't reject large files.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Larry,

Thanks very much for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

I successfully located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.  Unfortunately,
the area of interest was right on the seam between two maps, but lo and
behold, you already anticipated that and had a good fix available in your
DEM Reader.  I haven't been able to get to that work yet:  I get an error
message, I/O Error 103.  Do you have a translation or recommendation for me
to try?  Both files will load and display successfully by themselves.

thanks!

Rich Aram

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I sent most of this information in a private email, but I thought some of
the other cavers might benefit from these answers.

Thanks for your letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page and
rewritten a section that gives detailed information on how to download and
use the DEM files. I would start by reading this section of the Compass web
page:

http://www.fountain 
ware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm

I think you should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis and
Clark Caverns. If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know which
ones you need. They are usually specified by the same names used for the
7.5-minute topographic maps.

If you have any other questions, feel free to write.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark
Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not appear
to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend some time
hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some suggestions and
help if they have used it recently.

Thanks! 

Rich Aram 
Geologist 
occasional geospelunkologist 
occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }


Messsage #: 170
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:29:06 -0500
From: "Aram, Richard B" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

hi Larry.
 
OK, here ya go, and thanks for your continued good help
 
Jefferson Island is on the west, Sappington on the east
 
Rich

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

The problem is probably caused by anomalies in the files right at the
edge between the two maps. For example, if the edge of one map has 250
points and the edge of the adjacent map has 270, the program has a
problem trying to resolve the difference. (I have seen very strange data
in these files.)

Send me the two DEM files and I will look at data and try to make
changes in the DEM Reader that will handle the problem. I have been
successful at doing this in the past.

Please zip both files and send them to this email address:

 [email protected]  

It has a large in-box and won't reject large files.

Larry

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Larry,

Thanks very much for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

I successfully located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.
Unfortunately, the area of interest was right on the seam between two
maps, but lo and behold, you already anticipated that and had a good fix
available in your DEM Reader.  I haven't been able to get to that work
yet:  I get an error message, I/O Error 103.  Do you have a translation
or recommendation for me to try?  Both files will load and display
successfully by themselves.

thanks!

Rich Aram

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I sent most of this information in a private email, but I thought some
of the other cavers might benefit from these answers.

Thanks for your letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page
and rewritten a section that gives detailed information on how to
download and use the DEM files. I would start by reading this section of
the Compass web page:

http://www.fountainware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm

I think you should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis
and Clark Caverns. If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know
which ones you need. They are usually specified by the same names used
for the 7.5-minute topographic maps.

If you have any other questions, feel free to write.

Larry

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark
Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not
appear to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend
some time hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some
suggestions and help if they have used it recently.

Thanks! 

Rich Aram 
Geologist 
occasional geospelunkologist 
occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 

hi 
Larry.
 
OK, 
here ya go, and thanks for your continued good help
 
Jefferson Island is on the west, Sappington on the 
east
 
Rich
 
 

From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry 
FishSent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:14 PMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,

The problem is probably 
caused by anomalies in the files right at the edge between the two maps. For 
example, if the edge of one map has 250 points and the edge of the adjacent map 
has 270, the program has a problem trying to resolve the difference. (I have 
seen very strange data in these files.)

Send me the two DEM 
files and I will look at data and try to make changes in the DEM Reader that 
will handle the problem. I have been successful at doing this in the 
past.

Please zip both files 
and send them to this email address:

 [email protected]

It has a large in-box 
and won’t reject large files.

Larry

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, 
Richard BSent: Wednesday, 
March 18, 2009 8:02 PMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Hi 
Larry,

Thanks very much for 
your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

I successfully located 
and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.  Unfortunately, the area of interest 
was right on the seam between two maps, but lo and behold, you already 
anticipated that and had a good fix available in your DEM Reader.  I 
haven't been able to get to that work yet:  I get an error message, I/O 
Error 103.  Do you have a translation or recommendation for me to 
try?  Both files will load and display successfully by 
themselves.

thanks!

Rich 
Aram

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry FishSent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 
AMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,
I sent most of 
this information in a private email, but I thought some of the other cavers 
might benefit from these answers.
Thanks for your 
letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page and rewritten a section 
that gives detailed information on how to download and use the DEM files. I 
would start by reading this section of the Compass web 
page:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm
I think you 
should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis and Clark Caverns. 
If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know which ones you need. They 
are usually specified by the same names used for the 7.5-minute topographic 
maps.
If you have any 
other questions, feel free to write.
Larry

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Aram, Richard 
BSent: Friday, March 13, 2009 
3:41 PMTo: 
[email protected]: [compass-users] Access to Digital 
Terrain Models to load to 
COMPASS?

I 
wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark Caverns in 
Montana.  The link from COMPASS 
to the USGS site does not appear to work, so the USGS probably changed 
something.  I plan to spend some time hunting it down, but I also hope 
other users can offer some suggestions and help if they have used it 
recently.
Thanks! 

Rich Aram Geologist occasional 
geospelunkologist occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 

Content-Description: SAPPINGTON_MT_24000.zip

Content-Description: SAPPINGTON_MT_24000.zip

Content-Description: JEFFERSON_ISLAND_24000.zip

Content-Description: JEFFERSON_ISLAND_24000.zip


Messsage #: 171
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:23:59 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,

I just wanted to let you know I'm still work on fixing the problem with your
files. I should have something for you soon.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

hi Larry.

OK, here ya go, and thanks for your continued good help

Jefferson Island is on the west, Sappington on the east

F'!

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

The problem is probably caused by anomalies in the files right at the edge
between the two maps. For example, if the edge of one map has 250 points and
the edge of the adjacent map has 270, the program has a problem trying to
resolve the difference. (I have seen very strange data in these files.)

Send me the two DEM files and I will look at data and try to make changes in
the DEM Reader that will handle the problem. I have been successful at doing
this in the past.

Please zip both files and send them to this email address:

 [email protected]  com

It has a large in-box and won't reject large files.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Larry,

Thanks very much for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

I successfully located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.  Unfortunately,
the area of interest was right on the seam between two maps, but lo and
behold, you already anticipated that and had a good fix available in your
DEM Reader.  I haven't been able to get to that work yet:  I get an error
message, I/O Error 103.  Do you have a translation or recommendation for me
to try?  Both files will load and display successfully by themselves.

thanks!

Rich Aram

  _____  

size=2 width="100%" alignInter tabIndex=-1 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I sent most of this information in a private email, but I thought some of
the other cavers might benefit from these answers.

Thanks for your letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page and
rewritten a section that gives detailed information on how to download and
use the DEM files. I would start by reading this section of the Compass web
page:

http://www.fountain 
ware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm

I think you should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis and
Clark Caverns. If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know which
ones you need. They are usually specified by the same names used for the
7.5-minute topographic maps.

If you have any other questions, feel free to write.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark
Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not appear
to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend some time
hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some suggestions and
help if they have used it recently.

Thanks! 

Rich Aram 
Geologist 
occasional geospelunkologist 
occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }


Messsage #: 172
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 07:25:25 -0500
From: "Aram, Richard B" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Hi Larry,
 
No problem, I very much appreciate your help
 
Rich

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:24 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I just wanted to let you know I'm still work on fixing the problem with
your files. I should have something for you soon.

Larry

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

hi Larry.

OK, here ya go, and thanks for your continued good help

Jefferson Island is on the west, Sappington on the east

F'!
________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

The problem is probably caused by anomalies in the files right at the
edge between the two maps. For example, if the edge of one map has 250
points and the edge of the adjacent map has 270, the program has a
problem trying to resolve the difference. (I have seen very strange data
in these files.)

Send me the two DEM files and I will look at data and try to make
changes in the DEM Reader that will handle the problem. I have been
successful at doing this in the past.

Please zip both files and send them to this email address:

 [email protected]  

It has a large in-box and won't reject large files.

Larry

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Larry,

Thanks very much for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

I successfully located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.
Unfortunately, the area of interest was right on the seam between two
maps, but lo and behold, you already anticipated that and had a good fix
available in your DEM Reader.  I haven't been able to get to that work
yet:  I get an error message, I/O Error 103.  Do you have a translation
or recommendation for me to try?  Both files will load and display
successfully by themselves.

thanks!

Rich Aram

________________________________

size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1 

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I sent most of this information in a private email, but I thought some
of the other cavers might benefit from these answers.

Thanks for your letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page
and rewritten a section that gives detailed information on how to
download and use the DEM files. I would start by reading this section of
the Compass web page:

http://www.fountainware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm

I think you should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis
and Clark Caverns. If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know
which ones you need. They are usually specified by the same names used
for the 7.5-minute topographic maps.

If you have any other questions, feel free to write.

Larry

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark
Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not
appear to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend
some time hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some
suggestions and help if they have used it recently.

Thanks! 

Rich Aram 
Geologist 
occasional geospelunkologist 
occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 

Hi 
Larry,
 
No 
problem, I very much appreciate your help
 
Rich

From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry 
FishSent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:24 AMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,

I just wanted to let 
you know I’m still work on fixing the problem with your files. I should have 
something for you soon.

Larry

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, 
Richard BSent: Thursday, March 
19, 2009 6:29 AMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

hi 
Larry.

OK, here ya go, and 
thanks for your continued good help

Jefferson 
Island is on the west, 
Sappington on the east

Rich

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry FishSent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:14 
PMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,
The problem is 
probably caused by anomalies in the files right at the edge between the two 
maps. For example, if the edge of one map has 250 points and the edge of the 
adjacent map has 270, the program has a problem trying to resolve the 
difference. (I have seen very strange data in these 
files.)
Send me the two 
DEM files and I will look at data and try to make changes in the DEM Reader that 
will handle the problem. I have been successful at doing this in the 
past.
Please zip both 
files and send them to this email address:
 [email protected]
It has a large 
in-box and won’t reject large files.
Larry

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Aram, Richard 
BSent: Wednesday, March 18, 
2009 8:02 PMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to 
COMPASS?

Hi 
Larry,

Thanks very much 
for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

I successfully 
located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.  Unfortunately, the area of 
interest was right on the seam between two maps, but lo and behold, you already 
anticipated that and had a good fix available in your DEM Reader.  I 
haven't been able to get to that work yet:  I get an error message, I/O 
Error 103.  Do you have a translation or recommendation for me to 
try?  Both files will load and display successfully by 
themselves.

thanks!

Rich 
Aram

size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> 
From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry FishSent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 
AMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,
I sent most of 
this information in a private email, but I thought some of the other cavers 
might benefit from these answers.
Thanks for your 
letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page and rewritten a section 
that gives detailed information on how to download and use the DEM files. I 
would start by reading this section of the Compass web 
page:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm
I think you 
should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis and Clark Caverns. 
If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know which ones you need. They 
are usually specified by the same names used for the 7.5-minute topographic 
maps.
If you have any 
other questions, feel free to write.
Larry

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Aram, 
Richard BSent: Friday, March 
13, 2009 3:41 PMTo: 
[email protected]: [compass-users] Access to Digital 
Terrain Models to load to 
COMPASS?

I 
wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark Caverns in 
Montana.  
The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not appear to work, so the USGS 
probably changed something.  I plan to spend some time hunting it down, but 
I also hope other users can offer some suggestions and help if they have used it 
recently.
Thanks! 

Rich Aram Geologist occasional 
geospelunkologist occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 


Messsage #: 173
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:58:48 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Hi Rich,

Sorry this had taken so long, but I have finally fixed the problem with your
DEM files. (I had a bit of a disk crash in the middle of things and I had to
reinstall Windows, which slowed things down.)

There were two basic problems with your DEM data. First, there were some
anomalies along the border of your DEM's. This is a common occurrence with
these public DEM's and I just needed to write some code to circumvent the
problem. (I have lots of patches in the code to circumvent problems like
this.) The second problem was that these 10-meter files are bigger than
other DEM files I have seen. As a result, the some of the columns contained
more data than my arrays could hold. I just needed to expand the arrays.

I also made some other changes to the DEMReader to make it a bit more user
friendly. The Linking Window now uses more friendly selection boxes and
cursor positioning tools. However, since this is fairly fresh code, there is
a possibility that I have introduced some new bugs, so please let me know if
you see anything that doesn't seem to work right.

At any rate, there is a new version on the web site here:

http://www.fountainware.com/compass/download.htm

(By the way, I'm working on a new DEM reading tool that will make the
merging much easier. It will probably be incorporated directly in the
Project Manager or Viewer to make it easier to use.)

Let me know if you have any questions or comments.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:25 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Larry,

No problem, I very much appreciate your help

F'!

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:24 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I just wanted to let you know I'm still work on fixing the problem with your
files. I should have something for you soon.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

hi Larry.

OK, here ya go, and thanks for your continued good help

Jefferson Island is on the west, Sappington on the east

F'!
  _____  

size=2 width="100%" alignInter tabIndex=-1 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

The problem is probably caused by anomalies in the files right at the edge
between the two maps. For example, if the edge of one map has 250 points and
the edge of the adjacent map has 270, the program has a problem trying to
resolve the difference. (I have seen very strange data in these files.)

Send me the two DEM files and I will look at data and try to make changes in
the DEM Reader that will handle the problem. I have been successful at doing
this in the past.

Please zip both files and send them to this email address:

 [email protected]  com

It has a large in-box and won't reject large files.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Larry,

Thanks very much for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

I successfully located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.  Unfortunately,
the area of interest was right on the seam between two maps, but lo and
behold, you already anticipated that and had a good fix available in your
DEM Reader.  I haven't been able to get to that work yet:  I get an error
message, I/O Error 103.  Do you have a translation or recommendation for me
to try?  Both files will load and display successfully by themselves.

thanks!

Rich Aram

  _____  

size=2 width="100%" alignInter tabIndex=-1 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I sent most of this information in a private email, but I thought some of
the other cavers might benefit from these answers.

Thanks for your letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page and
rewritten a section that gives detailed information on how to download and
use the DEM files. I would start by reading this section of the Compass web
page:

http://www.fountain 
ware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm

I think you should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis and
Clark Caverns. If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know which
ones you need. They are usually specified by the same names used for the
7.5-minute topographic maps.

If you have any other questions, feel free to write.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark
Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not appear
to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend some time
hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some suggestions and
help if they have used it recently.

Thanks! 

Rich Aram 
Geologist 
occasional geospelunkologist 
occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }


Messsage #: 174
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 22:22:50 -0500
From: "Aram, Richard B" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

hi Larry,
 
Thanks!
 
It's no problem that you didn't do this instantly:  your service is
still quite remarkable.
 
Did you meant to send an attachment of the zipped file, or will the new
DEM reader be able to automatically fix the two I had?
 
I've seen your new enhancement to display a cave map on a Googal Earth
image:  pretty cool!   If you ever run out of things to do to entertain
yourself, would it be possible to display a 3D cave map on the 3D Googal
earth image and and Googal Earth DTM?  That may not be needed for many
caves in the flatlands, but it would be very cool (and actually pretty
helpful) with caves in areas with significant topography.
 
I've been able to load a series of fake surveys to make a tilted, folded
grid to mimic the geology at Lewis and Clark Caverns, and got that tied
pretty well with the cave model.  It's really interesting to rotate in
3D.  I'm still tweaking it, but can share that shortly.  I'm still
trying to keep the animation file small enough that I can email it.  
 
thanks again!
 
Rich

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Rich,

Sorry this had taken so long, but I have finally fixed the problem with
your DEM files. (I had a bit of a disk crash in the middle of things and
I had to reinstall Windows, which slowed things down.)

There were two basic problems with your DEM data. First, there were some
anomalies along the border of your DEM's. This is a common occurrence
with these public DEM's and I just needed to write some code to
circumvent the problem. (I have lots of patches in the code to
circumvent problems like this.) The second problem was that these
10-meter files are bigger than other DEM files I have seen. As a result,
the some of the columns contained more data than my arrays could hold. I
just needed to expand the arrays.

I also made some other changes to the DEMReader to make it a bit more
user friendly. The Linking Window now uses more friendly selection boxes
and cursor positioning tools. However, since this is fairly fresh code,
there is a possibility that I have introduced some new bugs, so please
let me know if you see anything that doesn't seem to work right.

At any rate, there is a new version on the web site here:

http://www.fountainware.com/compass/download.htm

(By the way, I'm working on a new DEM reading tool that will make the
merging much easier. It will probably be incorporated directly in the
Project Manager or Viewer to make it easier to use.)

Let me know if you have any questions or comments.

Larry

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:25 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Larry,

No problem, I very much appreciate your help

F'!
________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:24 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I just wanted to let you know I'm still work on fixing the problem with
your files. I should have something for you soon.

Larry

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

hi Larry.

OK, here ya go, and thanks for your continued good help

Jefferson Island is on the west, Sappington on the east

F'!
________________________________

size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1 

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

The problem is probably caused by anomalies in the files right at the
edge between the two maps. For example, if the edge of one map has 250
points and the edge of the adjacent map has 270, the program has a
problem trying to resolve the difference. (I have seen very strange data
in these files.)

Send me the two DEM files and I will look at data and try to make
changes in the DEM Reader that will handle the problem. I have been
successful at doing this in the past.

Please zip both files and send them to this email address:

 [email protected]  

It has a large in-box and won't reject large files.

Larry

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Larry,

Thanks very much for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

I successfully located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.
Unfortunately, the area of interest was right on the seam between two
maps, but lo and behold, you already anticipated that and had a good fix
available in your DEM Reader.  I haven't been able to get to that work
yet:  I get an error message, I/O Error 103.  Do you have a translation
or recommendation for me to try?  Both files will load and display
successfully by themselves.

thanks!

Rich Aram

________________________________

size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1 

From: [email protected]roups.com
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I sent most of this information in a private email, but I thought some
of the other cavers might benefit from these answers.

Thanks for your letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page
and rewritten a section that gives detailed information on how to
download and use the DEM files. I would start by reading this section of
the Compass web page:

http://www.fountainware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm

I think you should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis
and Clark Caverns. If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know
which ones you need. They are usually specified by the same names used
for the 7.5-minute topographic maps.

If you have any other questions, feel free to write.

Larry

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark
Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not
appear to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend
some time hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some
suggestions and help if they have used it recently.

Thanks! 

Rich Aram 
Geologist 
occasional geospelunkologist 
occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 

hi 
Larry,
 
Thanks!
 
It's 
no problem that you didn't do this instantly:  your service is still quite 
remarkable.
 
Did 
you meant to send an attachment of the zipped file, or will the new DEM reader 
be able to automatically fix the two I had?
 
I've 
seen your new enhancement to display a cave map on a Googal Earth image:  
pretty cool!   If you ever run out of things to do to entertain 
yourself, would it be possible to display a 3D cave map on the 3D Googal earth 
image and and Googal Earth DTM?  That may not be needed for many caves in 
the flatlands, but it would be very cool (and actually pretty helpful) with 
caves in areas with significant topography.
 
I've 
been able to load a series of fake surveys to make a tilted, folded grid to 
mimic the geology at Lewis and Clark Caverns, and got that tied pretty well with 
the cave model.  It's really interesting to rotate in 3D.  I'm still 
tweaking it, but can share that shortly.  I'm still trying to keep the 
animation file small enough that I can email it.  
 
thanks 
again!
 
Rich

From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry 
FishSent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:59 PMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Hi 
Rich,

Sorry this had taken so 
long, but I have finally fixed the problem with your DEM files. (I had a bit of 
a disk crash in the middle of things and I had to reinstall Windows, which 
slowed things down.)
There were two basic 
problems with your DEM data. First, there were some anomalies along the border 
of your DEM's. This is a common occurrence with these public DEM's and I just 
needed to write some code to circumvent the problem. (I have lots of patches in 
the code to circumvent problems like this.) The second problem was that these 
10-meter files are bigger than other DEM files I have seen. As a result, the 
some of the columns contained more data than my arrays could hold. I just needed 
to expand the arrays.
I also made some other 
changes to the DEMReader to make it a bit more user friendly. The Linking Window 
now uses more friendly selection boxes and cursor positioning tools. However, 
since this is fairly fresh code, there is a possibility that I have introduced 
some new bugs, so please let me know if you see anything that doesn't seem to 
work right.
At any rate, there is a 
new version on the web site here:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/download.htm
(By the way, I'm 
working on a new DEM reading tool that will make the merging much easier. It 
will probably be incorporated directly in the Project Manager or Viewer to make 
it easier to use.)
Let me know if you have 
any questions or comments.

Larry

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Aram, 
Richard BSent: Monday, March 
23, 2009 6:25 AMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Hi 
Larry,

No problem, I very much 
appreciate your help

Rich

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry FishSent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:24 
AMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,
I just wanted to 
let you know I’m still work on fixing the problem with your files. I should have 
something for you soon.
Larry

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Aram, Richard 
BSent: Thursday, March 19, 
2009 6:29 AMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to 
COMPASS?

hi 
Larry.

OK, here ya go, 
and thanks for your continued good help

Jefferson 
Island is on the west, 
Sappington on the east

Rich

size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> 
From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry FishSent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:14 
PMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,
The problem is 
probably caused by anomalies in the files right at the edge between the two 
maps. For example, if the edge of one map has 250 points and the edge of the 
adjacent map has 270, the program has a problem trying to resolve the 
difference. (I have seen very strange data in these 
files.)
Send me the two 
DEM files and I will look at data and try to make changes in the DEM Reader that 
will handle the problem. I have been successful at doing this in the 
past.
Please zip both 
files and send them to this email 
address:
 [email protected]
It has a large 
in-box and won’t reject large files.
Larry

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Aram, 
Richard BSent: Wednesday, 
March 18, 2009 8:02 PMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to 
COMPASS?

Hi 
Larry,

Thanks very much 
for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

I successfully 
located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.  Unfortunately, the area of 
interest was right on the seam between two maps, but lo and behold, you already 
anticipated that and had a good fix available in your DEM Reader.  I 
haven't been able to get to that work yet:  I get an error message, I/O 
Error 103.  Do you have a translation or recommendation for me to 
try?  Both files will load and display successfully by 
themselves.

thanks!

Rich 
Aram

size=2 
width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> 
From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry FishSent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 
AMTo: 
[email protected]: RE: [compass-users] Access to 
Digital Terrain Models to load to 
COMPASS?

Rich,
I sent most of 
this information in a private email, but I thought some of the other cavers 
might benefit from these answers.
Thanks for your 
letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page and rewritten a section 
that gives detailed information on how to download and use the DEM files. I 
would start by reading this section of the Compass web 
page:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm
I think you 
should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis and Clark Caverns. 
If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know which ones you need. They 
are usually specified by the same names used for the 7.5-minute topographic 
maps.
If you have any 
other questions, feel free to 
write.
Larry

From: 
[email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Aram, 
Richard BSent: Friday, March 
13, 2009 3:41 PMTo: 
[email protected]: [compass-users] Access to Digital 
Terrain Models to load to 
COMPASS?

I 
wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark Caverns in 
Montana.  
The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not appear to work, so the USGS 
probably changed something.  I plan to spend some time hunting it down, but 
I also hope other users can offer some suggestions and help if they have used it 
recently.
Thanks! 

Rich Aram Geologist occasional 
geospelunkologist occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 


Messsage #: 175
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 14:10:39 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to COMPASS?

Rich,

 Did you meant to send an attachment of the zipped file, or

 will the new DEM reader be able to automatically fix the two

I had?

Basically, I fixed the Merge-Tool in the DEM Reader so it will merge the two
DEM files you sent. That will allow you to create a new DEM that combines
the two files. The new file will still only cover 7.5-minutes, but it will
be the 7.5 minutes that over lap the two DEM's. The Merge Tool allows you to
adjust the over lap so that you can center the new map on a location near
the border to the two maps.

The new version of the DEM Reader that I am currently working on will allow
you to merge DEM's so that the combined maps will cover 15-minutes not
7.5-minutes. The program is about half done, but I'm not sure when I will
have time work on it.

 If you ever run out of things to do to entertain yourself,

 would it be possible to display a 3D cave map on the 3D

 Googal earth image and and Googal Earth DTM?

I thought about doing that when I made the KML export tool, but I couldn't
see a way to show the vertical aspect of the cave. In order for it to work,
you would need some way to make the earth transparent. I couldn't find a way
to do that in the KML spec or in Google Earth. Are you aware of some way to
make the earth transparent?

 I've been able to load a series of fake surveys to make a

 tilted, folded grid to mimic the geology at Lewis and Clark

 Caverns, and got that tied pretty well with the cave model.

 It's really interesting to rotate in 3D. I'm still tweaking

 it, but can share that shortly. I'm still trying to keep the

 animation file small enough that I can email it.

I would love to see it when you have it ready!

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

hi Larry,

Thanks!

It's no problem that you didn't do this instantly:  your service is still
quite remarkable.

Did you meant to send an attachment of the zipped file, or will the new DEM
reader be able to automatically fix the two I had?

I've seen your new enhancement to display a cave map on a Googal Earth
image:  pretty cool!   If you ever run out of things to do to entertain
yourself, would it be possible to display a 3D cave map on the 3D Googal
earth image and and Googal Earth DTM?  That may not be needed for many caves
in the flatlands, but it would be very cool (and actually pretty helpful)
with caves in areas with significant topography.

I've been able to load a series of fake surveys to make a tilted, folded
grid to mimic the geology at Lewis and Clark Caverns, and got that tied
pretty well with the cave model.  It's really interesting to rotate in 3D.
I'm still tweaking it, but can share that shortly.  I'm still trying to keep
the animation file small enough that I can email it.  

thanks again!

F'!

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Rich,

Sorry this had taken so long, but I have finally fixed the problem with your
DEM files. (I had a bit of a disk crash in the middle of things and I had to
reinstall Windows, which slowed things down.)

There were two basic problems with your DEM data. First, there were some
anomalies along the border of your DEM's. This is a common occurrence with
these public DEM's and I just needed to write some code to circumvent the
problem. (I have lots of patches in the code to circumvent problems like
this.) The second problem was that these 10-meter files are bigger than
other DEM files I have seen. As a result, the some of the columns contained
more data than my arrays could hold. I just needed to expand the arrays.

I also made some other changes to the DEMReader to make it a bit more user
friendly. The Linking Window now uses more friendly selection boxes and
cursor positioning tools. However, since this is fairly fresh code, there is
a possibility that I have introduced some new bugs, so please let me know if
you see anything that doesn't seem to work right.

At any rate, there is a new version on the web site here:

http://www.fountain 
ware.com/compass/download.htm

(By the way, I'm working on a new DEM reading tool that will make the
merging much easier. It will probably be incorporated directly in the
Project Manager or Viewer to make it easier to use.)

Let me know if you have any questions or comments.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:25 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Larry,

No problem, I very much appreciate your help

F'!
  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:24 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I just wanted to let you know I'm still work on fixing the problem with your
files. I should have something for you soon.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

hi Larry.

OK, here ya go, and thanks for your continued good help

Jefferson Island is on the west, Sappington on the east

F'!
  _____  

size=2 width="100%" alignInter tabIndex=-1 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

The problem is probably caused by anomalies in the files right at the edge
between the two maps. For example, if the edge of one map has 250 points and
the edge of the adjacent map has 270, the program has a problem trying to
resolve the difference. (I have seen very strange data in these files.)

Send me the two DEM files and I will look at data and try to make changes in
the DEM Reader that will handle the problem. I have been successful at doing
this in the past.

Please zip both files and send them to this email address:

 [email protected]  com

It has a large in-box and won't reject large files.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Hi Larry,

Thanks very much for your usual very prompt and thorough help.  

I successfully located and loaded a DEM from GeoCommunity.  Unfortunately,
the area of interest was right on the seam between two maps, but lo and
behold, you already anticipated that and had a good fix available in your
DEM Reader.  I haven't been able to get to that work yet:  I get an error
message, I/O Error 103.  Do you have a translation or recommendation for me
to try?  Both files will load and display successfully by themselves.

thanks!

Rich Aram

  _____  

size=2 width="100%" alignInter tabIndex=-1 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

Rich,

I sent most of this information in a private email, but I thought some of
the other cavers might benefit from these answers.

Thanks for your letter. I have updated the links on the Compass web page and
rewritten a section that gives detailed information on how to download and
use the DEM files. I would start by reading this section of the Compass web
page:

http://www.fountain 
ware.com/compass/sdtsdem.htm

I think you should be able to find all the DEM files you need for Lewis and
Clark Caverns. If you have any problems the quadrangles, let me know which
ones you need. They are usually specified by the same names used for the
7.5-minute topographic maps.

If you have any other questions, feel free to write.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Aram, Richard B
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Access to Digital Terrain Models to load to
COMPASS?

I wish to load a Digital Terrain Model to our maps of Lewis and Clark
Caverns in Montana.  The link from COMPASS to the USGS site does not appear
to work, so the USGS probably changed something.  I plan to spend some time
hunting it down, but I also hope other users can offer some suggestions and
help if they have used it recently.

Thanks! 

Rich Aram 
Geologist 
occasional geospelunkologist 
occasional speleocartographer 
[email protected] 

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }


Messsage #: 176
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:06:38 -0400
From: Christian Chenier 
Subject: SEF import issue

Hi Larry,
An Auriga conduit user reported me an error in my 
import code, and we traced it down to the 
following: When importing a file from the .sef 
format into Compass, we get a .dat file that 
contains lines such as the following:

   W2010    W0003    44.59   212.50   -22.00 
22.97    19.69     3.28     0.00 #|*#

The first thing that jumps to the eye is the * 
flag. As far as I can tell, there is no such flag 
in Compass. The survey editor will not allow such 
character to be saved as a flag. Is there a 
reason this unusual flag is included? I do not 
know the details of the .sef format, but here is the corresponding line:
  *,W2010,W0003,13.59,212.5,-22,7,0,6,1
(All data lines in my .sef file contain the 
leading *. I've seen another .sef file elsewhere 
that does not contain any such *... perhaps this is part of the problem?)

Why is Compass inserting unsupported flags when 
importing SEF? Are there any other unsupported 
flags that could get inserted in the same way? 
This type of information is important for whoever 
wants to read the resulting DAT files.

I also notice that spacing is different between a 
SEF import and a DAT file produced from the survey editor. Why?

Thanks,
Chris

Christian Ch‚nier
Gatineau (Qu‚bec), Canada
(819) 772-8824 


Messsage #: 177
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 03:05:07 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] SEF import issue

Hi Christen,

Thanks for your email. Sorry it has taken a couple days to get back to you.
I have been out of town.

The SEF standard has many problems. It was originally developed for the
program "SMAPS", which was a fairly sophisticated DOS cave survey program. I
always hated SEF, because the standard and definitions are ambiguous and
there are so many different options, that it is almost impossible to deal
with all the combinations. Different programs interpret the documentation in
different ways. Even Doug Dotson, who developed the SEF format, implemented
it in different ways in different versions of SMAPS.

The "flag" data in the SEF file comes from something the documentation calls
a "Shot Type" which the documentation describes as a "SMAPS feature, 4 ASCII
characters max". There is one of these for each shot. I think it was
intended as a catch-all for anything that might be used to describe the
shot.

In practice, at least for SMAPS, the data contains simple single letter
commands that are identical to the Compass shot flags. However, SMAPS
allowed the user to enter custom flags. Also, other programs may put
different data in those flags; the standard is open ended.

When I implemented the Compass SEF importer, I wasn't sure what data would
be in those flags. I could have filtered it, only allowing flags I
recognized. The downside would be that data would be lost. Instead, I just
copy the data "as-is" into the Compass flag. I figured that since the user
would know the source of the data, he/she could figure out how to interpret
the meaning of non-conforming flags and could change them as needed. 

The bottom line is the "|#*|" probably came from the original data. I
wouldn't know what it means without knowing something about the source of
the data.

 I also notice that spacing is different between a SEF import

 and a DAT file produced from the survey editor. Why?

The Compass format has undergone many changes over the years as I have added
new data fields and increased the size of the "Station Names." As these
fields have changed, the number of spaces has changed to make the data more
readable. 

The SEF import tool was probably written at a time when the layout was
slightly different. The "DAT" file format does not expect a fixed number of
spaces between items. The spaces are only there for the benefit of the human
reader.

Compass doesn't really care about the number of spaces in the file. Items
can be separated by one space or as many as you want. Some of the first DAT
files that I generated back in 1979 can still be read by the current version
of Compass. I think in 1979, I only allowed five characters for station
names and the software ran on a PDP-10 Main frame that was as big as a
house.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Larry


Messsage #: 178
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:18:07 -0400
From: "Dwight Livingston" 
Subject: color by flag

Larry

A feature I would use would be color by flag. It would help to see what
shots are excluded from the length and which are not.

It would also be nice if the survey settings and would stay as I set them
every time I opened the program.

I use the program a lot. Thanks for all the work.

Dwight


Messsage #: 179
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:35:43 +0200
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [compass-users] color by flag

Hi,

Color by flag: Excellent idea. Would be very useful for me too!

The survey settings: yes I guess we're all waiting for that for a long time. There is the \"view\" stuff but that is not very user-friendly. Once wrote Larry a long mail about this :-). Lots of confusing buttons and dialogs about restore, read, write, update the view. If he would work on this and make it something more comprehensible (the standard \"Save\", \"Save As\", \"Open view\" stuff ) and more user friendly (like, when you exit the viewer, a dialog should come up that asks \"the view has changed. Save it Y or N)\"...now that would do exactly what you are asking for. 

I'm sure Larry will be reading along so I just wanted to express my support for your proposal. 

regards

Paul De Bie

LarryA feature I would use would be color by flag. It would help to see whatshots are excluded from the length and which are not.It would also be nice if the survey settings and would stay as I set themevery time I opened the program.I use the program a lot. Thanks for all the work.Dwight------------------------------------

Hi,
 
Color by flag: Excellent idea. Would be very useful for me too!
 
The survey settings: yes I guess we're all waiting for that for a long time. There is the "view" stuff but that is not very user-friendly. Once wrote Larry a long mail about this :-). Lots of confusing buttons and dialogs about restore, read, write, update the view. If he would work on this and make it something more comprehensible (the standard "Save", "Save As", "Open view" stuff ) and more user friendly (like, when you exit the viewer, a dialog should come up that asks "the view has changed. Save it Y or N)"...now that would do exactly what you are asking for. 
 
I'm sure Larry will be reading along so I just wanted to express my support for your proposal. 
 
regards
 
Paul De Bie
 
 

LarryA feature I would use would be color by flag. It would help to see whatshots are excluded from the length and which are not.It would also be nice if the survey settings and would stay as I set themevery time I opened the program.I use the program a lot. Thanks for all the work.Dwight------------------------------------


Messsage #: 180
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 02:32:55 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] color by flag

Hi Everybody,

Both of your ideas are very good. Unfortunately, all the "Flags" never make
it out of the "Compiler" and are not in the Plot file. That means the viewer
doesn't have access to that information. This is part of the philosophy that
Compass adopted back when we didn't have much memory on the computers. It is
now an obsolete philosophy, but there is so much code built around the
concept (170,000 lines,) that making the changes without breaking everything
is difficult. Lots of other things aren't available to the viewer like
loops, blunders, statistics, flags, notes, etc. Ideally, all that
information should be in memory all the time and available to all programs.
I'm working on changes that give all the Compass programs access to the same
data, but that is in the future.

The "View" feature has been neglected for a long time. I put it in the first
version of the Window Viewer and then I realized that every time I made a
change to the Viewer, I needed to rewrite the "View" feature. One of the
problems is the file has to change every time I make a change to the
feature. That means that the old files are useless every time I make a
change. It really needs to be rewritten to use XML. That way, old and new
files would always be compatible. 

I've had some time this summer to work on new features and there are a bunch
of big new changes coming that I think everyone will like. I will have some
announcements in a month or so, and, of course, I will post on this group
first. In fact, I may ask you all to do some heavy testing because these are
some complicated and sophisticated features.

Thanks to everyone for all the input; it is always very useful.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:36 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] color by flag

Hi,
 
Color by flag: Excellent idea. Would be very useful for me too!
 
The survey settings: yes I guess we're all waiting for that for a long time.
There is the "view" stuff but that is not very user-friendly. Once wrote
Larry a long mail about this :-). Lots of confusing buttons and dialogs
about restore, read, write, update the view. If he would work on this and
make it something more comprehensible (the standard "Save", "Save As", "Open
view" stuff ) and more user friendly (like, when you exit the viewer, a
dialog should come up that asks "the view has changed. Save it Y or
N)"...now that would do exactly what you are asking for. 
 
I'm sure Larry will be reading along so I just wanted to express my support
for your proposal. 
 
regards
 
Paul De Bie

  _____  

LarryA feature I would use would be color by flag. It would help to see
whatshots are excluded from the length and which are not.It would also be
nice if the survey settings and would stay as I set themevery time I opened
the program.I use the program a lot. Thanks for all the
work.Dwight------------------------------------

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }


Messsage #: 181
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 07:42:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dwight Livingston 
Subject: Re: RE: [compass-users] color by flag

Larry
 
Thanks for your reply. I'm interested in what you come up with, and I'll be glad to do some testing.
 
DwightSep 17, 2009 04:33:36 AM, [email protected] wrote:
  

Hi Everybody,
 
Both of your ideas are very good. Unfortunately, all the ƒ?oFlagsƒ?? never make it out of the ƒ?oCompilerƒ?? and are not in the Plot file. That means the viewer doesnƒ?Tt have access to that information. This is part of the philosophy that Compass adopted back when we didnƒ?Tt have much memory on the computers. It is now an obsolete philosophy, but there is so much code built around the concept (170,000 lines,) that making the changes without breaking everything is difficult. Lots of other things arenƒ?Tt available to the viewer like loops, blunders, statistics, flags, notes, etc. Ideally, all that information should be in memory all the time and available to all programs. Iƒ?Tm working on changes that give all the Compass programs access to the same data, but that is in the future.
 
The ƒ?oViewƒ?? feature has been neglected for a long time. I put it in the first version of the Window Viewer and then I realized that every time I made a change to the Viewer, I needed to rewrite the ƒ?oViewƒ?? feature. One of the problems is the file has to change every time I make a change to the feature. That means that the old files are useless every time I make a change. It really needs to be rewritten to use XML. That way, old and new files would always be compatible. 
 
Iƒ?Tve had some time this summer to work on new features and there are a bunch of big new changes coming that I think everyone will like. I will have some announcements in a month or so, and, of course, I will post on this group first. In fact, I may ask you all to do some heavy testing because these are some complicated and sophisticated features.
 
Thanks to everyone for all the input; it is always very useful.
 
Larry
 
 
 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:36 AMTo: [email protected]; [email protected]: RE: [compass-users] color by flag
 
  

Hi, Color by flag: Excellent idea. Would be very useful for me too! The survey settings: yes I guess we're all waiting for that for a long time. There is the "view" stuff but that is not very user-friendly. Once wrote Larry a long mail about this :-). Lots of confusing buttons and dialogs about restore, read, write, update the view. If he would work on this and make it something more comprehensible (the standard "Save", "Save As", "Open view" stuff ) and more user friendly (like, when you exit the viewer, a dialog should come up that asks "the view has changed. Save it Y or N)"...now that would do exactly what you are asking for.  I'm sure Larry will be reading along so I just wanted to express my support for your proposal.  regards Paul De Bie  

LarryA feature I would use would be color by flag. It would help to see whatshots are excluded from the length and which are not.It would also be nice if the survey settings and would stay as I set themevery time I opened the program.I use the program a lot. Thanks for all the work.Dwight------------------------------------


Messsage #: 182
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:54:22 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: Question for everyone

Hi Everyone,

Here is a question that maybe you can help me with. Paul De Bie is having a
problem with Compass that I cannot duplicate on my computer. If you go into
the Viewer, you can right-click on a survey, and a menu will come up that
has the option of "Edit Survey at Cursor." When he selects that option, the
Editor opens, but the Viewer closes. It is not supposed to do that.

On my computer, the Editor opens and the Viewer stays open underneath. I'm
trying to figure out what is causing the problem. He has several computers
where the problem occurs. It works just fine on all my computers. This is
what it looks like on my computer:

http://www.fountainware.com/trivia/Compass/OpenEditor.htm

The only thing I can think of is that he is in Belgium and his "Regional
Settings" are different. I would like to get a sampling of what other people
experience in other areas.

If you have time, please test this feature in Compass and let me know
whether the Viewer stays open when you right click and edit the survey under
the cursor. Also, I need to know the country you reside in and the operating
system you are using.

Thanks,

Larry Fish


Messsage #: 183
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 22:16:16 -0700
From: "Paul R. Jorgenson" 
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Question for everyone

Larry,

Mine runs like yours = as you expected.  Running Windows XP (SP3) in the 
USA.

I wish work was still sending me to Belgium...  I know this wonderful place 
in central Antwerp...

=================================  Paul R. Jorgenson  KE7HR  Phoenix, AZ
  NSS 39382 RLFE - No caves to speak of.
        Central Arizona Grotto - President
=================================From: "Larry Fish" 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Question for everyone

 Hi Everyone,

 Here is a question that maybe you can help me with. Paul De Bie is having 
 a
 problem with Compass that I cannot duplicate on my computer. If you go 
 into
 the Viewer, you can right-click on a survey, and a menu will come up that
 has the option of "Edit Survey at Cursor." When he selects that option, 
 the
 Editor opens, but the Viewer closes. It is not supposed to do that.

 On my computer, the Editor opens and the Viewer stays open underneath. I'm
 trying to figure out what is causing the problem. He has several computers
 where the problem occurs. It works just fine on all my computers. This is
 what it looks like on my computer:

 http://www.fountainware.com/trivia/Compass/OpenEditor.htm

 The only thing I can think of is that he is in Belgium and his "Regional
 Settings" are different. I would like to get a sampling of what other 
 people
 experience in other areas.

 If you have time, please test this feature in Compass and let me know
 whether the Viewer stays open when you right click and edit the survey 
 under
 the cursor. Also, I need to know the country you reside in and the 
 operating
 system you are using.

 Thanks,

 Larry Fish 


Messsage #: 184
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:01:12 -0400
From: Christian Chenier 
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Question for everyone

Hi Larry,
I get interesting results: I tried with various 
plt files and for several it works like you, for 
another it works like Paul, and for the third one 
it works like you, but I get the following pop-up error:

mycave.plt - Cave Viewer
Access violation at address 00404D20 in module 
'View32.exe'. Read of address 7369643B

When I click OK, all seem to continue working fine.

My Windows XP sp3 is localized for English 
(Canada). That being said, the fact that I get 
different results depending on plt files hints 
that localization might not be the issue here. If 
it can help, I can run more tests, or I can send 
you faulty files. I am running version 
5.09.5.4.263 of the Viewer and version 
5.09.5.4.66 of the Editor and can install a 
different version if you think it would help.

Chris

At 09:54 PM 10/10/2009, Larry Fish wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Here is a question that maybe you can help me with. Paul De Bie is having a
problem with Compass that I cannot duplicate on my computer. If you go into
the Viewer, you can right-click on a survey, and a menu will come up that
has the option of "Edit Survey at Cursor." When he selects that option, the
Editor opens, but the Viewer closes. It is not supposed to do that.

On my computer, the Editor opens and the Viewer stays open underneath. I'm
trying to figure out what is causing the problem. He has several computers
where the problem occurs. It works just fine on all my computers. This is
what it looks like on my computer:

http://www.fountainware.com/trivia/Compass/OpenEditor.htm

The only thing I can think of is that he is in Belgium and his "Regional
Settings" are different. I would like to get a sampling of what other people
experience in other areas.

If you have time, please test this feature in Compass and let me know
whether the Viewer stays open when you right click and edit the survey under
the cursor. Also, I need to know the country you reside in and the operating
system you are using.

Thanks,

Larry Fish

Christian Ch‚nier
Gatineau (Qu‚bec), Canada
(819) 772-8824 

Hi Larry,
I get interesting results: I tried with various plt files and for several
it works like you, for another it works like Paul, and for the third one
it works like you, but I get the following pop-up error:
mycave.plt - Cave Viewer
Access violation at address 00404D20 in module 'View32.exe'. Read of
address 7369643B
When I click OK, all seem to continue working fine.
My Windows XP sp3 is localized for English (Canada). That being said, the
fact that I get different results depending on plt files hints that
localization might not be the issue here. If it can help, I can run more
tests, or I can send you faulty files. I am running version 5.09.5.4.263
of the Viewer and version 5.09.5.4.66 of the Editor and can install a
different version if you think it would help. 
Chris

At 09:54 PM 10/10/2009, Larry Fish wrote:
  
Hi Everyone,
Here is a question that maybe you can help me with. Paul De Bie is having
a
problem with Compass that I cannot duplicate on my computer. If you go
into
the Viewer, you can right-click on a survey, and a menu will come up
that
has the option of "Edit Survey at Cursor." When he selects that
option, the
Editor opens, but the Viewer closes. It is not supposed to do
that.
On my computer, the Editor opens and the Viewer stays open underneath.
I'm
trying to figure out what is causing the problem. He has several
computers
where the problem occurs. It works just fine on all my computers. This
is
what it looks like on my computer:

http://www.fountainware.com/trivia/Compass/OpenEditor.htm
The only thing I can think of is that he is in Belgium and his
"Regional
Settings" are different. I would like to get a sampling of what
other people
experience in other areas.
If you have time, please test this feature in Compass and let me
know
whether the Viewer stays open when you right click and edit the survey
under
the cursor. Also, I need to know the country you reside in and the
operating
system you are using.
Thanks,
Larry Fish

Christian Ch‚nier
Gatineau (Qu‚bec), Canada
(819) 772-8824


Messsage #: 185
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:38:46 -0400
From: "Dwight Livingston" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Question for everyone

Larry

My XP Home Edition system also loses the Viewer when starting "Edit Survey
at Cursor." The two images attached show the error messages.

Dwight

  -----Original Message-----
  From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Larry Fish
  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:54 PM
  To: [email protected]
  Subject: [compass-users] Question for everyone

    Hi Everyone,

  Here is a question that maybe you can help me with. Paul De Bie is having
a
  problem with Compass that I cannot duplicate on my computer. If you go
into
  the Viewer, you can right-click on a survey, and a menu will come up that
  has the option of "Edit Survey at Cursor." When he selects that option,
the
  Editor opens, but the Viewer closes. It is not supposed to do that.

  On my computer, the Editor opens and the Viewer stays open underneath. I'm
  trying to figure out what is causing the problem. He has several computers
  where the problem occurs. It works just fine on all my computers. This is
  what it looks like on my computer:

  http://www.fountainware.com/trivia/Compass/OpenEditor.htm

  The only thing I can think of is that he is in Belgium and his "Regional
  Settings" are different. I would like to get a sampling of what other
people
  experience in other areas.

  If you have time, please test this feature in Compass and let me know
  whether the Viewer stays open when you right click and edit the survey
under
  the cursor. Also, I need to know the country you reside in and the
operating
  system you are using.

  Thanks,

  Larry Fish

Larry
 
My XP 
Home Edition system also loses the Viewer when starting "Edit Survey at 
Cursor." The two images attached show the error messages.
 
Dwight
 
 
 
 
 

  -----Original Message-----From: 
  [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On 
  Behalf Of Larry FishSent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:54 
  PMTo: [email protected]: 
  [compass-users] Question for everyone  
  
  Hi Everyone,Here is a question that maybe you can help me with. 
  Paul De Bie is having aproblem with Compass that I cannot duplicate on my 
  computer. If you go intothe Viewer, you can right-click on a survey, and a 
  menu will come up thathas the option of "Edit Survey at Cursor." When he 
  selects that option, theEditor opens, but the Viewer closes. It is not 
  supposed to do that.On my computer, the Editor opens and the Viewer 
  stays open underneath. I'mtrying to figure out what is causing the 
  problem. He has several computerswhere the problem occurs. It works just 
  fine on all my computers. This iswhat it looks like on my 
  computer:http://www.fountainware.com/trivia/Compass/OpenEditor.htmThe 
  only thing I can think of is that he is in Belgium and his 
  "RegionalSettings" are different. I would like to get a sampling of what 
  other peopleexperience in other areas.If you have time, please 
  test this feature in Compass and let me knowwhether the Viewer stays open 
  when you right click and edit the survey underthe cursor. Also, I need to 
  know the country you reside in and the operatingsystem you are 
  using.Thanks,Larry Fish


Messsage #: 186
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:21:38 +0200
From: "Paul De Bie" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Question for everyone

Hi Larry and others, 
 
Well I tried it also with other plt files and... it works there. The viewer stays nicely in place.
But these were small PLT files. 
Have you tried it with the big Anialarra Porject I've send you? Maybe the number of shots plays a
role. 
 
Anyway, in my case, no access violation. It just terminates without a warning. 
 
HTH

Paul De Bie
http://www.scavalon.be  
http://scavalon.blogspot.com  
http://pollekepik.blogspot.com  

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christian
Chenier
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Question for everyone

Hi Larry,
I get interesting results: I tried with various plt files and for several it works like you, for
another it works like Paul, and for the third one it works like you, but I get the following pop-up
error:

mycave.plt - Cave Viewer
Access violation at address 00404D20 in module 'View32.exe'. Read of address 7369643B

When I click OK, all seem to continue working fine.

My Windows XP sp3 is localized for English (Canada). That being said, the fact that I get different
results depending on plt files hints that localization might not be the issue here. If it can help,
I can run more tests, or I can send you faulty files. I am running version 5.09.5.4.263 of the
Viewer and version 5.09.5.4.66 of the Editor and can install a different version if you think it
would help. 

Chris

At 09:54 PM 10/10/2009, Larry Fish wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Here is a question that maybe you can help me with. Paul De Bie is having a
problem with Compass that I cannot duplicate on my computer. If you go into
the Viewer, you can right-click on a survey, and a menu will come up that
has the option of "Edit Survey at Cursor." When he selects that option, the
Editor opens, but the Viewer closes. It is not supposed to do that.

On my computer, the Editor opens and the Viewer stays open underneath. I'm
trying to figure out what is causing the problem. He has several computers
where the problem occurs. It works just fine on all my computers. This is
what it looks like on my computer:

http://www.fountainware.com/trivia/Compass/OpenEditor.htm

The only thing I can think of is that he is in Belgium and his "Regional
Settings" are different. I would like to get a sampling of what other people
experience in other areas.

If you have time, please test this feature in Compass and let me know
whether the Viewer stays open when you right click and edit the survey under
the cursor. Also, I need to know the country you reside in and the operating
system you are using.

Thanks,

Larry Fish

Christian Ch‚nier
Gatineau (Qu‚bec), Canada
(819) 772-8824 

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Hi Larry and others, 
 
Well I tried it also with other plt files and... it works 
there. The viewer stays nicely in place. But these were small PLT files. 

Have you tried it with the big Anialarra Porject I've send 
you? Maybe the number of shots plays a role. 
 
Anyway, in my case, no access violation. It just terminates 
without a warning. 
 
HTH
Paul De Biehttp://www.scavalon.behttp://scavalon.blogspot.comhttp://pollekepik.blogspot.com
 
  
  From: [email protected] 
  [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christian 
  ChenierSent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 4:01 PMTo: 
  [email protected]: Re: [compass-users] Question 
  for everyone
  Hi 
  Larry,I get interesting results: I tried with various plt files and for 
  several it works like you, for another it works like Paul, and for the third 
  one it works like you, but I get the following pop-up error:mycave.plt 
  - Cave ViewerAccess violation at address 00404D20 in module 'View32.exe'. 
  Read of address 7369643BWhen I click OK, all seem to continue working 
  fine.My Windows XP sp3 is localized for English (Canada). That being 
  said, the fact that I get different results depending on plt files hints that 
  localization might not be the issue here. If it can help, I can run more 
  tests, or I can send you faulty files. I am running version 5.09.5.4.263 of 
  the Viewer and version 5.09.5.4.66 of the Editor and can install a different 
  version if you think it would help. ChrisAt 09:54 PM 
  10/10/2009, Larry Fish wrote:
   Hi Everyone,Here 
    is a question that maybe you can help me with. Paul De Bie is having 
    aproblem with Compass that I cannot duplicate on my computer. If you go 
    intothe Viewer, you can right-click on a survey, and a menu will come up 
    thathas the option of "Edit Survey at Cursor." When he selects that 
    option, theEditor opens, but the Viewer closes. It is not supposed to do 
    that.On my computer, the Editor opens and the Viewer stays open 
    underneath. I'mtrying to figure out what is causing the problem. He has 
    several computerswhere the problem occurs. It works just fine on all my 
    computers. This iswhat it looks like on my computer:http://www.fountainware.com/trivia/Compass/OpenEditor.htmThe 
    only thing I can think of is that he is in Belgium and his 
    "RegionalSettings" are different. I would like to get a sampling of what 
    other peopleexperience in other areas.If you have time, please 
    test this feature in Compass and let me knowwhether the Viewer stays 
    open when you right click and edit the survey underthe cursor. Also, I 
    need to know the country you reside in and the operatingsystem you are 
    using.Thanks,Larry Fish
  --------------------------------------------Christian 
  Ch‚nierGatineau (Qu‚bec), Canada(819) 772-8824 


Messsage #: 187
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:54:58 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Question for everyone

Christian,

Great information! I would like to have a copy of the two files that fail.
Send them here:

[email protected]

On the two files that fail, do they always fail? Or do they just fail
occasionally? Also, do they fail only when you click on certain surveys or
any survey?

Thanks for the help.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Christian Chenier
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Question for everyone

Hi Larry,
I get interesting results: I tried with various plt files and for several it
works like you, for another it works like Paul, and for the third one it
works like you, but I get the following pop-up error:

mycave.plt - Cave Viewer
Access violation at address 00404D20 in module 'View32.exe'. Read of address
7369643B

When I click OK, all seem to continue working fine.

My Windows XP sp3 is localized for English (Canada). That being said, the
fact that I get different results depending on plt files hints that
localization might not be the issue here. If it can help, I can run more
tests, or I can send you faulty files. I am running version 5.09.5.4.263 of
the Viewer and version 5.09.5.4.66 of the Editor and can install a different
version if you think it would help. 

Chris

At 09:54 PM 10/10/2009, Larry Fish wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Here is a question that maybe you can help me with. Paul De Bie is having a
problem with Compass that I cannot duplicate on my computer. If you go into
the Viewer, you can right-click on a survey, and a menu will come up that
has the option of "Edit Survey at Cursor." When he selects that option, the
Editor opens, but the Viewer closes. It is not supposed to do that.

On my computer, the Editor opens and the Viewer stays open underneath. I'm
trying to figure out what is causing the problem. He has several computers
where the problem occurs. It works just fine on all my computers. This is
what it looks like on my computer:

http://www.fountain

ware.com/trivia/Compass/OpenEditor.htm

The only thing I can think of is that he is in Belgium and his "Regional
Settings" are different. I would like to get a sampling of what other people
experience in other areas.

If you have time, please test this feature in Compass and let me know
whether the Viewer stays open when you right click and edit the survey under
the cursor. Also, I need to know the country you reside in and the operating
system you are using.

Thanks,

Larry Fish

Christian Ch‚nier
Gatineau (Qu‚bec), Canada
(819) 772-8824 

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }


Messsage #: 188
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:12:57 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Question for everyone

Paul,

 Have you tried it with the big Anialarra Porject I've send you?

Yes, that is the main file I have used to try to find the problem. It always
works fine on my computer. I have tried clicking on different surveys, in
plan and profile mode, and with station labels on and off. No error and the
Viewer stays open.

 Maybe the number of shots plays a role. 

Could be. I have also tried it on Lechuguilla which has more than 29,000
shots. It works fine on my computer.

I think it maybe a combination of settings and files. So far, it has
occurred on certain files and at least two of the computers were set to
non-US settings. Hopefully, as I get more information, a pattern will
emerge.

Thanks for information.

Larry


Messsage #: 189
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:20:13 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Question for everyone [2 Attachments]

Dwight,

Thanks for the information, it is very helpful.

How is your computer setup? Do you have US settings or settings for
languages other than English? Do you have any special configurations? Do you
have any of the accessibility options set? Do you have any special input
devices?

Thanks 

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Dwight Livingston
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 5:39 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Question for everyone [2 Attachments]

[Attachment(s) from Dwight Livingston included below] 

Larry

My XP Home Edition system also loses the Viewer when starting "Edit Survey
at Cursor." The two images attached show the error messages.

Dwight

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:54 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Question for everyone

Hi Everyone,

Here is a question that maybe you can help me with. Paul De Bie is having a
problem with Compass that I cannot duplicate on my computer. If you go into
the Viewer, you can right-click on a survey, and a menu will come up that
has the option of "Edit Survey at Cursor." When he selects that option, the
Editor opens, but the Viewer closes. It is not supposed to do that.

On my computer, the Editor opens and the Viewer stays open underneath. I'm
trying to figure out what is causing the problem. He has several computers
where the problem occurs. It works just fine on all my computers. This is
what it looks like on my computer:

http://www.fountain

ware.com/trivia/Compass/OpenEditor.htm

The only thing I can think of is that he is in Belgium and his "Regional
Settings" are different. I would like to get a sampling of what other people
experience in other areas.

If you have time, please test this feature in Compass and let me know
whether the Viewer stays open when you right click and edit the survey under
the cursor. Also, I need to know the country you reside in and the operating
system you are using.

Thanks,

Larry Fish

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }


Messsage #: 190
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 03:06:24 -0600
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: Thanks to everyone for the help. The problem is solved.

Hi,
I want to thank everyone for the help. With the clues I got from everyone's
tests, I was able to tract down the problem. It only occurred with long
survey names where the survey data was in a folder with a long path name.
At any rate, the problem is fixed and there is a new version on the
internet.
Larry


Messsage #: 191
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:10:00 -0000
From: "kershawrg" 
Subject: start up warning box

hi all and larry
when I open your new version of compass I get the following

No loops to test 

in a warning box

This happens on my desktop as well as laptop

both run XP with SP3 and recent updates

hope you can help
thanks
Bob


Messsage #: 192
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:43:56 -0000
From: "kershawrg" 
Subject: warning at start up

hi again all
ignore my last post it was the version dated oct 9 not this version dated 12th oct
cheers
Bob


Messsage #: 193
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 01:05:17 -0700
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: Big Announcement - Cartography tools: SVG Export, Morphing and  Round Tripping

Hi Compass Users,

I have exciting news and a bit of an early Christmas Present for everyone.
For the last six months I have been working on a set a of Cartography tools
for Compass. The tools are design to make it easier to create and maintain
finished, professional quality, digital cave maps. The tools include SVG
Exporting, SVG Merging/Morphing (round tripping) and Sketch Map editing. 
The tools are now ready for Beta testing and I'm inviting everyone in the
group to try out the new programs. Here is a link to Beta web page. You will
find instructions on the beta and links to the down loads and tutorials.
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/Beta.htm
Larry Fish


Messsage #: 194
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 18:56:21 +0100
From: "Paul De Bie" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Big Announcement - Cartography tools: SVG Export, Morphing and  Round Tripping

Hi Larry, 

this looks really great, I'm looking forward to give it a try. 
Thanks a lot, this must have a tremendous effort. 

Paul De Bie
http://www.scavalon.be
http://scavalon.blogspot.com
http://pollekepik.blogspot.com

 -----Original Message-----
 From: [email protected] 
 [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Fish
 Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:05 AM
 To: [email protected]
 Subject: [compass-users] Big Announcement - Cartography 
 tools: SVG Export, Morphing and Round Tripping
 
 Hi Compass Users,
 
 I have exciting news and a bit of an early Christmas Present 
 for everyone.
 For the last six months I have been working on a set a of 
 Cartography tools for Compass. The tools are design to make 
 it easier to create and maintain finished, professional 
 quality, digital cave maps. The tools include SVG Exporting, 
 SVG Merging/Morphing (round tripping) and Sketch Map editing. 
 The tools are now ready for Beta testing and I'm inviting 
 everyone in the group to try out the new programs. Here is a 
 link to Beta web page. You will find instructions on the beta 
 and links to the down loads and tutorials.
 http://www.fountainware.com/compass/Beta.htm
 Larry Fish
 
 ------------------------------------
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links


Messsage #: 195
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:20:04 +0100
From: Roger Schuster 
Subject: Some issues

Hi there,

I tested the new cartography tools and the current compass release on 
Windows 7 (64 Bit, German locale, Aero effects enabled) quick & dirty. 
There are some (minor) issues.

In SVG Exporter and Sketch Editor the "File | Exit" menu item doesn't 
work- the window stays open. No error message.

If I open a file in CaveXOViewer a warning "Mesh size will exceed 
available memory" appears on the "Cave Mesh Settings" dialogue. The 
dialogue also says "Memory Required 1,0 Meg" and "Available Memory 0,0 
Meg" even for tiny caves with five or six stations. After clicking 
"Process file" the cave data load and display well.

Tabbed dialogues (Complex Plotting in Cave Viewer for example) are hard 
to read on Windows 7. Active tabs, inactive tabs and buttons have the 
same grey colour as the background of the window. A more "XP-ish" or 
"Seven-ish" GUI style would make the different elements easier to 
recognize.

Roger


Messsage #: 196
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 04:28:22 -0700
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Some issues

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the feedback. I have a Win7 DVD sitting right here and I will
install it as soon as I get a chance, probably in a virtual machine.

I think several of the bugs also exist in XP and I should be able to fix
them quickly.

Larry

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Roger Schuster
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:20 AM
Subject: [compass-users] Some issues

Hi there,

I tested the new cartography tools and the current compass release on 
Windows 7 (64 Bit, German locale, Aero effects enabled) quick & dirty. 
There are some (minor) issues.

In SVG Exporter and Sketch Editor the "File | Exit" menu item doesn't 
work- the window stays open. No error message.

If I open a file in CaveXOViewer a warning "Mesh size will exceed 
available memory" appears on the "Cave Mesh Settings" dialogue. The 
dialogue also says "Memory Required 1,0 Meg" and "Available Memory 0,0 
Meg" even for tiny caves with five or six stations. After clicking 
"Process file" the cave data load and display well.

Tabbed dialogues (Complex Plotting in Cave Viewer for example) are hard 
to read on Windows 7. Active tabs, inactive tabs and buttons have the 
same grey colour as the background of the window. A more "XP-ish" or 
"Seven-ish" GUI style would make the different elements easier to 
recognize.

Roger

Yahoo! Groups Links


Messsage #: 197
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:36:54 -0700
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Some issues

Hi Roger,

I have fixed most of the problems you found. The "Exit" menu items in the
SVG Exporter and Sketch Map editor now "close" the programs as they are
supposed.

In CaveXO, I removed the memory warning message. That was feature left over
from the days when computers had less memory and less ability to use virtual
memory. The problem did not show up in the 32-bit version of Windows-7, so
I'm assuming it has to do with the 64-bit address space in your version.

Finally, I looked at the Tabs under Window-7 and didn't see any problem. I
tried all the different themes, including some of the weird high-contrast
themes, and the tabs are all easily readable. All the Compass programs use
the Windows default colors and fonts so they should track whatever Windows
is using.

I suspect this is an Aero issue. I have installed Win7 in a virtual machine
under XP, so it doesn't really have full Aero functionality at this point. I
will try to install a full version of Win7 in the next couple of months and
check out the problem.

I have fixed some other bugs that have been reported in the Sketch Editor
and there new versions of CaveXO, the Sketch Map Editor and the SVG Exporter
on the internet.

Thanks for the feed back.

Larry

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Roger Schuster
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:20 AM
Subject: [compass-users] Some issues

Hi there,

I tested the new cartography tools and the current compass release on 
Windows 7 (64 Bit, German locale, Aero effects enabled) quick & dirty. 
There are some (minor) issues.

In SVG Exporter and Sketch Editor the "File | Exit" menu item doesn't 
work- the window stays open. No error message.

If I open a file in CaveXOViewer a warning "Mesh size will exceed 
available memory" appears on the "Cave Mesh Settings" dialogue. The 
dialogue also says "Memory Required 1,0 Meg" and "Available Memory 0,0 
Meg" even for tiny caves with five or six stations. After clicking 
"Process file" the cave data load and display well.

Tabbed dialogues (Complex Plotting in Cave Viewer for example) are hard 
to read on Windows 7. Active tabs, inactive tabs and buttons have the 
same grey colour as the background of the window. A more "XP-ish" or 
"Seven-ish" GUI style would make the different elements easier to 
recognize.

Roger

Yahoo! Groups Links


Messsage #: 198
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:29:07 -0700
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: Update to beta test software

Hi Everybody,

I have fixed several bugs and have added several new features to the
cartography tools, based on feedback from several people here is a
description of the changes:

1. You can now select individual shots for export or morphing. The list of
Sections and Surveys now includes every shot in the cave. By checking the
check box next to each shot, you can individually select shots.

2. You can now save the pattern of Sections, Surveys and Shots to a file.
The file also includes other settings for your map, such as scale, rotation,
paper size, margins, units and view. This allows you to save and restore
complicated map configurations.

3. There is now a special tool for automating the selection of shots and
surveys. The tool allows you to select shots by depth or position in the
cave. This is very useful when you are working on multi-level cave systems.
The tool also has the ability to compensate for the tilt of the cave. For
example, if the limestone is tilted so the levels in the cave are not at a
consistent depth, the feature can "flatten" the cave and make it easy to
select layers.

The tool also allows you to select surveys by the date the survey was done.
Since surveys are often done in the order they are discovered, this allows
you select the main trends in the cave.

The changes are described in the help files and the tutorials have been
updated to reflect the new features. Here the link to the beta test:

http://www.fountainware.com/compass/Cartography/

Larry


Messsage #: 199
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:58:50 -0500
From: "Dwight Livingston" 
Subject: shot order and loop closure

Compass Users

When solving for loop closures, I get different results when shots are
ordered differently. Is this expected behavior?

Thanks

Dwight


Messsage #: 200
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:59:53 -0700
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] shot order and loop closure

Dwight,

Thanks for your email. It is normal behavior. When you have a cave with
multiple loops, there can be several different ways to organize the same set
of loops. For example if you have loops that looks something like this:

1 - 2 - 3

|   |   |

4 - 5 - 6

there would be three different ways to organize the loops.

1. Stations: 1,2,5,4 and 2,3,6,5

2. Stations: 1,2,3,6,5,4 and 1,2,5,4.

3. Stations: 1,2,3,6,5,4 and 2,3,6,5.

Each covers all the stations so there is probably not much advantage to one
organization over the other. Some people would say the first set of shots is
the best because the loops are smaller. As far as loop closure is concerned,
it doesn't make much difference.

The way Compass currently works, it finds the first loops first. Basically,
it looks at every shot it finds to see if that shot closes a loop. If it
does, it walks backward until it finds where the loop started and then marks
those shots as being part of the loop. This means that the loops are
organized based on how the cave was surveyed.

If you change the order in which the surveys or shots are entered, the
program will find different loops first. In most cases the actual loops will
be the same, but sometimes, the program will find a different set of loops
covering the same shots.

I have code written that makes Compass always find the smallest loops no
matter what order the shots are in. It is part of a larger reorganization of
Compass. I haven't had time to make those changes.

It is a little bit complicated to explain an email, but there is an article
here that explains some of the more subtle aspects:

http://www.fountainware.com/compass/FindingLoops.doc

If you have any more questions, feel free to write.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Dwight Livingston
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:59 AM
Subject: [compass-users] shot order and loop closure

Compass Users

When solving for loop closures, I get different results when shots are
ordered differently. Is this expected behavior?

Thanks

Dwight

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}


Messsage #: 201
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:07:02 -0700
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] shot order and loop closure

By the way, sorry about the double spacing. Yahoo does that whenever I use
Outlook to compose the email.

Larry


Messsage #: 202
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:26:52 -0500
From: "Dwight Livingston" 
Subject: RE: [compass-users] shot order and loop closure

Larry

Thanks for your quick reply.

Dwight

  -----Original Message-----
  From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Larry Fish
  Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:00 PM
  To: [email protected]
  Subject: RE: [compass-users] shot order and loop closure

  Dwight,

  Thanks for your email. It is normal behavior. When you have a cave with
multiple loops, there can be several different ways to organize the same set
of loops. For example if you have loops that looks something like this:

  1 - 2 - 3

  |   |   |

  4 - 5 - 6

  there would be three different ways to organize the loops.

  1. Stations: 1,2,5,4 and 2,3,6,5

  2. Stations: 1,2,3,6,5,4 and 1,2,5,4.

  3. Stations: 1,2,3,6,5,4 and 2,3,6,5.

  Each covers all the stations so there is probably not much advantage to
one organization over the other. Some people would say the first set of
shots is the best because the loops are smaller. As far as loop closure is
concerned, it doesn't make much difference.

  The way Compass currently works, it finds the first loops first.
Basically, it looks at every shot it finds to see if that shot closes a
loop. If it does, it walks backward until it finds where the loop started
and then marks those shots as being part of the loop. This means that the
loops are organized based on how the cave was surveyed.

  If you change the order in which the surveys or shots are entered, the
program will find different loops first. In most cases the actual loops will
be the same, but sometimes, the program will find a different set of loops
covering the same shots.

  I have code written that makes Compass always find the smallest loops no
matter what order the shots are in. It is part of a larger reorganization of
Compass. I haven't had time to make those changes.

  It is a little bit complicated to explain an email, but there is an
article here that explains some of the more subtle aspects:

  http://www.fountainware.com/compass/FindingLoops.doc

  If you have any more questions, feel free to write.

  Larry

  From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Dwight Livingston
  Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:59 AM
  To: Compass-Users
  Subject: [compass-users] shot order and loop closure

  Compass Users

  When solving for loop closures, I get different results when shots are
  ordered differently. Is this expected behavior?

  Thanks

  Dwight

Larry
 
Thanks 
for your quick reply.
 
Dwight
 
 
 
 
 

  -----Original Message-----From: 
  [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On 
  Behalf Of Larry FishSent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:00 
  PMTo: [email protected]: RE: 
  [compass-users] shot order and loop closure  
  
  Dwight,
  
  Thanks for your 
  email. It is normal behavior. When you have a cave with multiple loops, there 
  can be several different ways to organize the same set of loops. For example 
  if you have loops that looks something like this:
  
  1 - 2 – 
  3
  |  
   |   |
  4 - 5 - 
  6
  
  there would be three 
  different ways to organize the loops.
  
  1. Stations: 1,2,5,4 
  and 2,3,6,5
  2. Stations: 
  1,2,3,6,5,4 and 1,2,5,4.
  3. Stations: 
  1,2,3,6,5,4 and 2,3,6,5.
  
  Each covers all the 
  stations so there is probably not much advantage to one organization over the 
  other. Some people would say the first set of shots is the best because the 
  loops are smaller. As far as loop closure is concerned, it doesn't make much 
  difference.
  
  The way Compass 
  currently works, it finds the first loops first. Basically, it looks at every 
  shot it finds to see if that shot closes a loop. If it does, it walks backward 
  until it finds where the loop started and then marks those shots as being part 
  of the loop. This means that the loops are organized based on how the cave was 
  surveyed.
  
  If you change the 
  order in which the surveys or shots are entered, the program will find 
  different loops first. In most cases the actual loops will be the same, but 
  sometimes, the program will find a different set of loops covering the same 
  shots.
  
  I have code written 
  that makes Compass always find the smallest loops no matter what order the 
  shots are in. It is part of a larger reorganization of Compass. I haven't had 
  time to make those changes.
  
  It is a little bit 
  complicated to explain an email, but there is an article here that explains 
  some of the more subtle aspects:
  
  http://www.fountainware.com/compass/FindingLoops.doc
  
  If you have any more 
  questions, feel free to write.
  
  Larry
  
  From: 
  [email protected] 
  [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwight 
  LivingstonSent: Saturday, 
  November 21, 2009 10:59 AMTo: Compass-UsersSubject: [compass-users] shot order and 
  loop closure
  
    
  
  Compass 
  UsersWhen solving for loop closures, I get different results when 
  shots areordered differently. Is this expected 
  behavior?ThanksDwight


Messsage #: 203
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:23:54 +0100
From: Roger Schuster 
Subject: locale-depending issues in svg exporter

Hi Larry,

there are some issues with SVG Exporter which seeming to be depending on 
the locale of the OS.

I use Windows 7, German. If I open a tiny cave (only 3 stations) and try 
to scale it to 1 : 100 in SVG Exporter the cave disappears from screen. 
The same happens when changing paper size. There are also strange values 
for the margin and offset settings. Margins are set to 1000 mm.

For testing purposes I installed SVG Exporter in a virtual machine 
running Windows 2000 set to U.S. English. Here the program works o.k. 
Scaled to 1 : 100 the survey keeps visible and also changing paper size 
works.

There are some problems with the exported SVG file. If opened in 
Inkscape 0.47 the border frame of the drawing area overlaps the label. 
There is also a strange grey line intersecting the two shots in the mini 
survey. Firefox does also display this line. The SVG was exported on the 
U.S. Windows machine.

See the screenshot showing both problems here:

http://www.r-schuster.de/tmp/inkscape_svg.png

Data file:

http://www.r-schuster.de/tmp/mooshoehle.plt

SVG:

http://www.r-schuster.de/tmp/mooshoehle.svg

Roger


Messsage #: 204
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:42:08 +0100
From: Roger Schuster 
Subject: help in SVG Exporter does not work

Hi Larry,

I forgot to mention the not working menu item "Help | Contents" in SVG 
Exporter.

Roger


Messsage #: 205
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:09:08 -0700
From: "Larry Fish" 
Subject: Bug fixes and New version of the SVG Exporter

Hi Roger,
Thanks for your email and the feedback. I spent a large part of last week
fixing the problems you reported and adding a few new features.
1. Most the problems had to do with the difference between German and
American formatting of decimal numbers (commas and dots for decimal and
thousands separators.) The default values were being changed to irrelevant
values when the program was run with Windows set to the German format. I
have tested the program carefully with both American and German formatting
and exporting, merging and morphing all seem to work correctly now.
2. The help file problem has also been fixed.
3. 
 There are some problems with the exported SVG file. If
 opened in Inkscape 0.47 the border frame of the drawing area
 overlaps the label. 
This is normal behavior. The "label" is not really a label. It is the
"Reference Layer" for the map. It contains information about the scale,
position, paper size and rotation. The program can read this information
from the map and use it match the scale of the map. The concept comes from
"Walls" and it is a "required" layer in Walls. It is not required by
Compass, but it is still useful. This layer would normally be hidden in the
final map and would almost never be manually modified by the user.
4. There is now an option to save the pattern of checked and unchecked
surveys. This is very useful for large caves where you produce maps small
sections. It is also useful for multi-layered caves where the map displays
individual layers separately. There is also a tool that allows you to select
individual shots by depth. This simplifies the process of focusing on
individual layer in a multilevel cave.
There are links to the new version of the program here:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/Cartography/
Thanks again for the feedback. It was very useful. If you have any more
questions or comments, feel free to write.
Larry