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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:31:38 -0000 From: "Chas" Subject: Compass problem Compass doesn't like 2010. It gives an error concerning magnetic declination when I try to set the date. It worked fine in December. Any suggestions?
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 02:03:16 -0700
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Compass problem
Thanks for pointing out the problem. The Magnetic Declination data only ran
through the end of 2009 so I had to update data. There is a new version on
the internet.
Everybody that uses the Magnetic Declination calculation in Compass should
down load the new version.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Chas
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 8:32 AM
Subject: [compass-users] Compass problem
Compass doesn't like 2010. It gives an error concerning magnetic declination
when I try to set the date. It worked fine in December. Any suggestions?
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:44:12 -0700 From: "Rich Bohman" Subject: SVG export of profiles? Larry, I'm trying to perform an SVG export of a pretty small cave, and I cannot export the profile. I see plenty of details on the map display window when the "plan" radio button is selected under the "Pos/scale" tab, but everything goes blank when I select the "Profile" radio button. An SVG export with that setting results in no data in the w2d_Survey layer. Do I need to do something special to the .plt file, or is the profile export not yet functional? Thanks for the help. -Rich
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:34:34 -0400 From: Tony Canike Subject: highlighting blundered loops on map Hi folks, Taking over a long-running mapping project here, and have a cave with 3000 stations and 65 loops. Of course, there are varying levels of error in the loops, and I'd like to go and resurvey a couple of the worst loops. To do this, I am trying to find a way to highlight specific loops on the lineplot. I have figured out how to find the loops with the most error, and to get the names of the stations that make up the loop, and I can find a couple of the stations on the line plot, but to find the whole loop is time consuming. For example, I'd like to select the loop with the greatest error (which happens to have about 40 stations in it and ties in to about 6 other loops) and have it a plot in a different color so I can create a map to explain to the survey team what needs to be resurveyed. Any ideas? Thanks, Tony.
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:13:27 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] SVG export of profiles?
Rich,
Thanks for your email. I had seen this problem before but hadn't focused on
it because I was tracking down a different problem at the time. It doesn't
happen on every cave, so it took some testing and I finally found one that
had the same problem. I tracked down the bug and fixed it.
There is a new version here:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/Beta.htm
Let me know if this fixes the problem. It could be that I only fixed it for
the one cave I tested it on.
Thanks for your feedback; it very useful for tracking down problems like
this.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Rich Bohman
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 5:44 PM
Subject: [compass-users] SVG export of profiles?
Larry,
I'm trying to perform an SVG export of a pretty small cave, and I cannot
export the profile.
I see plenty of details on the map display window when the "plan" radio
button is selected under the "Pos/scale" tab, but everything goes blank when
I select the "Profile" radio button. An SVG export with that setting results
in no data in the w2d_Survey layer.
Do I need to do something special to the .plt file, or is the profile export
not yet functional?
Thanks for the help.
-Rich
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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:57:32 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] highlighting blundered loops on map
Hi Tony,
Thanks for your questions. The latest version of Compass allows the Viewer
to display loops. This version was posted on 12/22/2009, so if you haven't
downloaded a version after that date, you need to download and install the
new version.
To get to the new feature, select the "Tools - View Loops" option from the
Viewer Menu bar. Press the "Help Button" to get detailed information about
using the feature.
Now this is the tricky part. The algorithm I use find to loops in the
"Viewer" is better than the one in the Project Manager. As a result, the
Project Manager and the Blunder Detection tools may show different loops
with different stations than the Viewer. If you find a problem with this,
you can turn off the "Optimize" option in the Viewer Loop Finder and have
the Viewer search for loops again. With the optimization turned off, the
Algorithm works more like the one in the Project Manager. However, even with
"Optimization" turned off, it may find slightly different loops.
In Compass, the loops are labeled by the two stations that make up the shot
that closes the loop. Since the Viewer uses a different algorithm for find
the loops, it may also decide a different shot closes the loop. For this
reason, you may find that the labels for the loops are not the same.
Eventually I plan to have all programs use the same algorithm and have the
blunder and loop information better integrated with the Viewer. I just
haven't had time to work on the changes.
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Tony Canike
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:35 PM
Subject: [compass-users] highlighting blundered loops on map
Hi folks,
Taking over a long-running mapping project here, and have a cave with
3000 stations and 65 loops. Of course, there are varying levels of
error in the loops, and I'd like to go and resurvey a couple of the
worst loops. To do this, I am trying to find a way to highlight
specific loops on the lineplot. I have figured out how to find the
loops with the most error, and to get the names of the stations that
make up the loop, and I can find a couple of the stations on the line
plot, but to find the whole loop is time consuming.
For example, I'd like to select the loop with the greatest error (which
happens to have about 40 stations in it and ties in to about 6 other
loops) and have it a plot in a different color so I can create a map to
explain to the survey team what needs to be resurveyed.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Tony.
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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 19:02:10 -0400 From: Tony Canike Subject: Re: highlighting blundered loops on map Hi Larry, Just downloaded the new version and checked it out. Pretty sweet. Took a couple minutes to match up the loops in the two programs but with your hints it is doable, and the View Loops feature really helps a lot! Thank you, Tony. On 3/18/2010 6:57 AM, Larry Fish ([email protected]) wrote Hi Tony, Thanks for your questions. The latest version of Compass allows the Viewer to display loops. This version was posted on 12/22/2009, so if you haven't downloaded a version after that date, you need to download and install the new version. To get to the new feature, select the "Tools - View Loops" option from the Viewer Menu bar. Press the "Help Button" to get detailed information about using the feature. Now this is the tricky part. The algorithm I use find to loops in the "Viewer" is better than the one in the Project Manager. As a result, the Project Manager and the Blunder Detection tools may show different loops with different stations than the Viewer. If you find a problem with this, you can turn off the "Optimize" option in the Viewer Loop Finder and have the Viewer search for loops again. With the optimization turned off, the Algorithm works more like the one in the Project Manager. However, even with "Optimization" turned off, it may find slightly different loops. In Compass, the loops are labeled by the two stations that make up the shot that closes the loop. Since the Viewer uses a different algorithm for find the loops, it may also decide a different shot closes the loop. For this reason, you may find that the labels for the loops are not the same. Eventually I plan to have all programs use the same algorithm and have the blunder and loop information better integrated with the Viewer. I just haven't had time to work on the changes. Let me know if you have any more questions. Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Tony Canike *Sent:* Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:35 PM *To:* [email protected] *Subject:* [compass-users] highlighting blundered loops on map Hi folks, Taking over a long-running mapping project here, and have a cave with 3000 stations and 65 loops. Of course, there are varying levels of error in the loops, and I'd like to go and resurvey a couple of the worst loops. To do this, I am trying to find a way to highlight specific loops on the lineplot. I have figured out how to find the loops with the most error, and to get the names of the stations that make up the loop, and I can find a couple of the stations on the line plot, but to find the whole loop is time consuming. For example, I'd like to select the loop with the greatest error (which happens to have about 40 stations in it and ties in to about 6 other loops) and have it a plot in a different color so I can create a map to explain to the survey team what needs to be resurveyed. Any ideas? Thanks, Tony. Hi Larry, Just downloaded the new version and checked it out. Pretty sweet. Took a couple minutes to match up the loops in the two programs but with your hints it is doable, and the View Loops feature really helps a lot! Thank you, Tony. On 3/18/2010 6:57 AM, Larry Fish ([email protected]) wrote Hi Tony, Thanks for your questions. The latest version of Compass allows the Viewer to display loops. This version was posted on 12/22/2009, so if you haven't downloaded a version after that date, you need to download and install the new version. To get to the new feature, select the "Tools - View Loops" option from the Viewer Menu bar. Press the "Help Button" to get detailed information about using the feature. Now this is the tricky part. The algorithm I use find to loops in the "Viewer" is better than the one in the Project Manager. As a result, the Project Manager and the Blunder Detection tools may show different loops with different stations than the Viewer. If you find a problem with this, you can turn off the "Optimize" option in the Viewer Loop Finder and have the Viewer search for loops again. With the optimization turned off, the Algorithm works more like the one in the Project Manager. However, even with "Optimization" turned off, it may find slightly different loops. In Compass, the loops are labeled by the two stations that make up the shot that closes the loop. Since the Viewer uses a different algorithm for find the loops, it may also decide a different shot closes the loop. For this reason, you may find that the labels for the loops are not the same. Eventually I plan to have all programs use the same algorithm and have the blunder and loop information better integrated with the Viewer. I just haven’t had time to work on the changes. Let me know if you have any more questions. Larry From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony Canike Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] highlighting blundered loops on map Hi folks, Taking over a long-running mapping project here, and have a cave with 3000 stations and 65 loops. Of course, there are varying levels of error in the loops, and I'd like to go and resurvey a couple of the worst loops. To do this, I am trying to find a way to highlight specific loops on the lineplot. I have figured out how to find the loops with the most error, and to get the names of the stations that make up the loop, and I can find a couple of the stations on the line plot, but to find the whole loop is time consuming. For example, I'd like to select the loop with the greatest error (which happens to have about 40 stations in it and ties in to about 6 other loops) and have it a plot in a different color so I can create a map to explain to the survey team what needs to be resurveyed. Any ideas? Thanks, Tony.
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 04:47:09 -0600 From: "Larry Fish" Subject: New Compass release: I wanted to let everybody know I'm releasing a new version of Compass today. I have taken the SVG Exporter/Morpher and Sketch Map Editor out of Beta test and it is ready for general use. There are also several other new features and improvements. For a complete description of what's new, check out the Compass web page: http://www.fountainware.com/compass Larry Fish
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 09:42:02 -0400 From: "Dwight Livingston" Subject: SVG exporter suggestions Larry I am enjoying your SVG exporter program, maybe not using it fully at this point but I find it useful to make plots for profiles. It is handy to turn off some shots, so I can see the shots I need. I am doing multiple profiles and have a dense rat's nest of survey lines. It's working for me, and I have a couple of suggestions for the program. For one, it would be good if the scale, rotation, and offsets did not jump around when I change the view or paper. That initially tripped me up and as a result I exported a subtly incorrect SVG. I know to check now, but even so I'd like to switch between plan and profile views without having to reset scale and rotation. For another, it'd be helpful if the LRUD lines where divided between LRs and UDs, so that I could turn off left/rights in profiles and turn off up/downs in plans. While I'm asking, it'd be great if I could save my settings for the Cave Viewer. I open that thing many times in a work session and have to set various things each time. Thanks Dwight
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 00:12:01 -0000 From: "Howard" Subject: Scaling issue in Illustrator Hi Larry I had an interesting problem pop up today. I surveyed a cave this weekend that must have hit all points of the compass rose.. This meant I could never quite get the orientation of the paper correct, and as a result was sketching 2 or three small sections per page. So I used your sketch editor to put everything together and it looked great! I exported it to illustrator and started to get to work on it. I then used your SVG exporter to put in a clean copy of the plan and the profile surveys and compared them. They did not match. The JPG from the sketch editor was larger then the survey plot from the SVG editor. When I have the screen on illustrator set to 100% the Sketch is correct, but the still larger then the plot. However the grid in illustrator is also small (one inch in the grid, at 100% is still smaller then 1 inch with a ruler) Playing around with it, I found that the scaling factor for the sketch was about 73% to match the plot. When I exported the survey scans directly into illustrator they matched the plot, and the grid, but not the sketch editor sketch. Subsequently I found that 'that Illustrator's 100% assumes a 72 ppi display resolution, regardless of the actual display resolution' So it would seem for illustrator users, they would need to set the sketches to 72 instead of the 100 that you recco in the instructions. Does this sound right to you? Has anyone else seen this issue? Howard Kalnitz
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 04:40:56 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Scaling issue in Illustrator
Hi Howard,
I didn't want you to think that I had missed you email, but I'm working on
some potential solutions to your problem and it is taking some time
experimenting with the code to see if I can make some changes that will
help. I should have something for you some time this weekend or early next
week.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Howard
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 6:12 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Scaling issue in Illustrator
Hi Larry
I had an interesting problem pop up today. I surveyed a cave this weekend
that must have hit all points of the compass rose.. This meant I could never
quite get the orientation of the paper correct, and as a result was
sketching 2 or three small sections per page.
So I used your sketch editor to put everything together and it looked great!
I exported it to illustrator and started to get to work on it. I then used
your SVG exporter to put in a clean copy of the plan and the profile surveys
and compared them.
They did not match. The JPG from the sketch editor was larger then the
survey plot from the SVG editor.
When I have the screen on illustrator set to 100% the Sketch is correct, but
the still larger then the plot. However the grid in illustrator is also
small (one inch in the grid, at 100% is still smaller then 1 inch with a
ruler)
Playing around with it, I found that the scaling factor for the sketch was
about 73% to match the plot. When I exported the survey scans directly into
illustrator they matched the plot, and the grid, but not the sketch editor
sketch.
Subsequently I found that 'that Illustrator's 100% assumes a 72 ppi display
resolution, regardless of the actual display resolution'
So it would seem for illustrator users, they would need to set the sketches
to 72 instead of the 100 that you recco in the instructions.
Does this sound right to you? Has anyone else seen this issue?
Howard Kalnitz
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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 02:57:30 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Scaling issue in Illustrator
Howard,
Thanks for your email. I don't have a lot of experience with Illustrator. I
only have one version of Illustrator, version CS2 and I have heard there are
significant differences between the different versions.
My guess is that the problem is with the Bitmap image of your sketch map and
not the SVG file. In theory, the plot lines and passages in SVG file should
be set to the exact lengths of the passages relative to paper size. For
example, if the passage is 100 feet long and the scale is 100 ft/inch, the
SVG drawing should have a 1-inch line.
On the other hand, I think the problem is caused by the bitmap image of your
sketch map. My guess is that Illustrator is probably assigning an arbitrary
scale to your sketch map.
As a result, I have added a new feature to the Sketch map Editor. You now
have the option of setting the internal scale of the bitmap before you save
it. The Internal Scale values appear at the bottom of the main screen and
you can change them to anything you want. This only applies Windows
BMP-style Bitmaps. It does not work with GIF, JPG, PNG or TIFF files right
now.
I'm not sure this will work with Illustrator, but I think there is a good
chance. I didn't have a project setup or the time to test it. Let me know if
it helps. If it doesn't help, I think you are going to have to re-scale the
bitmap using Illustrator's tools like you are already doing.
There is a new copy of the Sketch map Editor here:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/download.htm
Let me know what you think.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Howard
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 6:12 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Scaling issue in Illustrator
Hi Larry
I had an interesting problem pop up today. I surveyed a cave this weekend
that must have hit all points of the compass rose.. This meant I could never
quite get the orientation of the paper correct, and as a result was
sketching 2 or three small sections per page.
So I used your sketch editor to put everything together and it looked great!
I exported it to illustrator and started to get to work on it. I then used
your SVG exporter to put in a clean copy of the plan and the profile surveys
and compared them.
They did not match. The JPG from the sketch editor was larger then the
survey plot from the SVG editor.
When I have the screen on illustrator set to 100% the Sketch is correct, but
the still larger then the plot. However the grid in illustrator is also
small (one inch in the grid, at 100% is still smaller then 1 inch with a
ruler)
Playing around with it, I found that the scaling factor for the sketch was
about 73% to match the plot. When I exported the survey scans directly into
illustrator they matched the plot, and the grid, but not the sketch editor
sketch.
Subsequently I found that 'that Illustrator's 100% assumes a 72 ppi display
resolution, regardless of the actual display resolution'
So it would seem for illustrator users, they would need to set the sketches
to 72 instead of the 100 that you recco in the instructions.
Does this sound right to you? Has anyone else seen this issue?
Howard Kalnitz
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 21:47:03 -0000 From: "Howard" Subject: Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator Larry Thanks for the reply You are exactly right - there is nothing wrong with the SVG editor. It imports the data into Illustrator exactly right. I played around with it and am sure the problem is that I set the original paper scale in the sketch editor to 100DPI when I drew a line of 1 inch. Illustrator DOES set its scaling to 72 DPI When I tried your scaling before saving - it did not change either the JPG ( which you warned it wouldnt) or the bitmap. Then I went into the edit section - I drew a line that was 100dpi long (because that is what I set it to before), then resized it to 72, saved it and exported it again, and it was perfect. Not sure what you have to do to make the button you added work - I think I may not have done it right. I will continue to play with it a bit. But perhaps all we need to do is make sure that illustrator users know to use 72 instead of 100 in the resizing step I am going to try to add some photos - the first would be as the original sketch from the sketch editor is added with the SVG in illustrator, the second is after I resized the total morph (one one step) in the editor section. Howard Howard, Thanks for your email. I don't have a lot of experience with Illustrator. I only have one version of Illustrator, version CS2 and I have heard there are significant differences between the different versions. My guess is that the problem is with the Bitmap image of your sketch map and not the SVG file. In theory, the plot lines and passages in SVG file should be set to the exact lengths of the passages relative to paper size. For example, if the passage is 100 feet long and the scale is 100 ft/inch, the SVG drawing should have a 1-inch line. On the other hand, I think the problem is caused by the bitmap image of your sketch map. My guess is that Illustrator is probably assigning an arbitrary scale to your sketch map. As a result, I have added a new feature to the Sketch map Editor. You now have the option of setting the internal scale of the bitmap before you save it. The Internal Scale values appear at the bottom of the main screen and you can change them to anything you want. This only applies Windows BMP-style Bitmaps. It does not work with GIF, JPG, PNG or TIFF files right now. I'm not sure this will work with Illustrator, but I think there is a good chance. I didn't have a project setup or the time to test it. Let me know if it helps. If it doesn't help, I think you are going to have to re-scale the bitmap using Illustrator's tools like you are already doing. There is a new copy of the Sketch map Editor here: http://www.fountainware.com/compass/download.htm Let me know what you think. Larry _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Howard Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 6:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] Scaling issue in Illustrator Hi Larry I had an interesting problem pop up today. I surveyed a cave this weekend that must have hit all points of the compass rose.. This meant I could never quite get the orientation of the paper correct, and as a result was sketching 2 or three small sections per page. So I used your sketch editor to put everything together and it looked great! I exported it to illustrator and started to get to work on it. I then used your SVG exporter to put in a clean copy of the plan and the profile surveys and compared them. They did not match. The JPG from the sketch editor was larger then the survey plot from the SVG editor. When I have the screen on illustrator set to 100% the Sketch is correct, but the still larger then the plot. However the grid in illustrator is also small (one inch in the grid, at 100% is still smaller then 1 inch with a ruler) Playing around with it, I found that the scaling factor for the sketch was about 73% to match the plot. When I exported the survey scans directly into illustrator they matched the plot, and the grid, but not the sketch editor sketch. Subsequently I found that 'that Illustrator's 100% assumes a 72 ppi display resolution, regardless of the actual display resolution' So it would seem for illustrator users, they would need to set the sketches to 72 instead of the 100 that you recco in the instructions. Does this sound right to you? Has anyone else seen this issue? Howard Kalnitz
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 16:41:34 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
Hi Howard
Not sure what you have to do to make the button you added
work - I think I may not have done it right. I will continue
to play with it a bit. But perhaps all we need to do is make
sure that illustrator users know to use 72 instead of 100 in
the resizing step
It took me a minute to figure out what button you were talking about. It was
a test button that I forgot to remove. You can ignore that button. (There is
a new version of the Sketch Editor on the internet without the button.)
This is a bit confusing: The actual place that you set the Bitmap Resolution
is not in Editor where you measure the resolution by drawing the line. It is
on the main page, - the first window that you see when you first run the
program. At the bottom of this First Window are two small number-boxes.
These boxes allow you to control the scaling of the bitmap.
One of the boxes displays English Units and one displays Metric Units. When
you read a bitmap into the Sketch Editor, it reads the scale from the bitmap
and displays the results in the boxes. You can change the value in the boxes
just before you save the file and it will put those values into the file.
I had originally wanted to put this function inside the Drawing Editor
itself so it would be there when you did the measuring operation.
Unfortunately, all the different operations can perform in other parts of
the program can change the resolution without you knowing it. For that
reason, the program only deals with the resolution when it reads the file
and when it saves the file. If you don't do anything, it will save the file
with the same resolution as the original file. If you change the resolution
before you save, it will save it with the new resolution.
I'm not sure this feature will fix the problem with Illustrator. Lots of
programs simply ignore the bitmap resolution and use whatever it needs to
make the image appear normal sized. If this works, I may be able to add the
same information to other types of files such as TIFFs, GIFs and JPEGs.
Thanks for testing the program. It really helps me when I get feed back from
people trying to use it.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Howard
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:47 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
Larry
Thanks for the reply
You are exactly right - there is nothing wrong with the SVG editor. It
imports the data into Illustrator exactly right.
I played around with it and am sure the problem is that I set the original
paper scale in the sketch editor to 100DPI when I drew a line of 1 inch.
Illustrator DOES set its scaling to 72 DPI
When I tried your scaling before saving - it did not change either the JPG (
which you warned it wouldnt) or the bitmap.
Then I went into the edit section - I drew a line that was 100dpi long
(because that is what I set it to before), then resized it to 72, saved it
and exported it again, and it was perfect.
Not sure what you have to do to make the button you added work - I think I
may not have done it right. I will continue to play with it a bit. But
perhaps all we need to do is make sure that illustrator users know to use 72
instead of 100 in the resizing step
I am going to try to add some photos - the first would be as the original
sketch from the sketch editor is added with the SVG in illustrator, the
second is after I resized the total morph (one one step) in the editor
section.
Howard
, "Larry Fish" wrote:
Howard,
Thanks for your email. I don't have a lot of experience with Illustrator.
I
only have one version of Illustrator, version CS2 and I have heard there
are
significant differences between the different versions.
My guess is that the problem is with the Bitmap image of your sketch map
and
not the SVG file. In theory, the plot lines and passages in SVG file
should
be set to the exact lengths of the passages relative to paper size. For
example, if the passage is 100 feet long and the scale is 100 ft/inch, the
SVG drawing should have a 1-inch line.
On the other hand, I think the problem is caused by the bitmap image of
your
sketch map. My guess is that Illustrator is probably assigning an
arbitrary
scale to your sketch map.
As a result, I have added a new feature to the Sketch map Editor. You now
have the option of setting the internal scale of the bitmap before you
save
it. The Internal Scale values appear at the bottom of the main screen and
you can change them to anything you want. This only applies Windows
BMP-style Bitmaps. It does not work with GIF, JPG, PNG or TIFF files right
now.
I'm not sure this will work with Illustrator, but I think there is a good
chance. I didn't have a project setup or the time to test it. Let me know
if
it helps. If it doesn't help, I think you are going to have to re-scale
the
bitmap using Illustrator's tools like you are already doing.
There is a new copy of the Sketch map Editor here:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/download.htm
Let me know what you think.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]
]
On Behalf Of Howard
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 6:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [compass-users] Scaling issue in Illustrator
Hi Larry
I had an interesting problem pop up today. I surveyed a cave this weekend
that must have hit all points of the compass rose.. This meant I could
never
quite get the orientation of the paper correct, and as a result was
sketching 2 or three small sections per page.
So I used your sketch editor to put everything together and it looked
great!
I exported it to illustrator and started to get to work on it. I then used
your SVG exporter to put in a clean copy of the plan and the profile
surveys
and compared them.
They did not match. The JPG from the sketch editor was larger then the
survey plot from the SVG editor.
When I have the screen on illustrator set to 100% the Sketch is correct,
but
the still larger then the plot. However the grid in illustrator is also
small (one inch in the grid, at 100% is still smaller then 1 inch with a
ruler)
Playing around with it, I found that the scaling factor for the sketch was
about 73% to match the plot. When I exported the survey scans directly
into
illustrator they matched the plot, and the grid, but not the sketch editor
sketch.
Subsequently I found that 'that Illustrator's 100% assumes a 72 ppi
display
resolution, regardless of the actual display resolution'
So it would seem for illustrator users, they would need to set the
sketches
to 72 instead of the 100 that you recco in the instructions.
Does this sound right to you? Has anyone else seen this issue?
Howard Kalnitz
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 01:17:14 -0000 From: "Howard" Subject: Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator It is on the main page, - the first window that you see when you first run the program. At the bottom of this First Window are two small number-boxes. These boxes allow you to control the scaling of the bitmap. One of the boxes displays English Units and one displays Metric Units. When you read a bitmap into the Sketch Editor, it reads the scale from the bitmap and displays the results in the boxes. You can change the value in the boxes just before you save the file and it will put those values into the file. Hi Larry Sorry for the delay - I am just now getting back to this. I do see the boxes you describe. I took my original morphed sketch, and set this box to 70 and saved it. Then I opened it in illustrator. It opened the same as the previous file with no adjustment in the box - too big in other words. Since this was in jpeg, i tried again in tiff. Tiff did not read into Illustrator at all. In bitmap, the file opened, but again there was no change to the file at all. Where ever you are placing it in the file - it does not seem to make any change to how illustrator opens it up... When I reset it in the edit mode it worked, but not out in the main screen using the new boxes. I will still use it, just scale it to 72% in illustrator for now. If you need more screen grabs or anything else just let me know. Thanks for all the help Howard
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 02:25:33 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
Howard,
Thanks for the feed back. It appears that Illustrator pays no attention to
the scaling information contained in a Windows Bitmap. That means it is
probably not worth the time to trying pursue this tactic. It probably will
ignore scaling information in other bitmap formats too.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Howard
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:17 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
It is
on the main page, - the first window that you see when you first run the
program. At the bottom of this First Window are two small number-boxes.
These boxes allow you to control the scaling of the bitmap.
One of the boxes displays English Units and one displays Metric Units.
When
you read a bitmap into the Sketch Editor, it reads the scale from the
bitmap
and displays the results in the boxes. You can change the value in the
boxes
just before you save the file and it will put those values into the file.
Hi Larry
Sorry for the delay - I am just now getting back to this.
I do see the boxes you describe. I took my original morphed sketch, and set
this box to 70 and saved it. Then I opened it in illustrator. It opened the
same as the previous file with no adjustment in the box - too big in other
words.
Since this was in jpeg, i tried again in tiff. Tiff did not read into
Illustrator at all. In bitmap, the file opened, but again there was no
change to the file at all.
Where ever you are placing it in the file - it does not seem to make any
change to how illustrator opens it up...
When I reset it in the edit mode it worked, but not out in the main screen
using the new boxes.
I will still use it, just scale it to 72% in illustrator for now. If you
need more screen grabs or anything else just let me know.
Thanks for all the help
Howard
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 21:23:03 -0400
From: "Dwight Livingston"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
Larry
I find that Illustrator will scale PSD files, which are native Photoshop. I
don't know how easy it would be to create or manipulate those.
Dwight
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 4:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
Howard,
Thanks for the feed back. It appears that Illustrator pays no attention to
the scaling information contained in a Windows Bitmap. That means it is
probably not worth the time to trying pursue this tactic. It probably will
ignore scaling information in other bitmap formats too.
Larry
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Howard
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
It is
on the main page, - the first window that you see when you first run the
program. At the bottom of this First Window are two small number-boxes.
These boxes allow you to control the scaling of the bitmap.
One of the boxes displays English Units and one displays Metric Units.
When
you read a bitmap into the Sketch Editor, it reads the scale from the
bitmap
and displays the results in the boxes. You can change the value in the
boxes
just before you save the file and it will put those values into the
file.
Hi Larry
Sorry for the delay - I am just now getting back to this.
I do see the boxes you describe. I took my original morphed sketch, and
set this box to 70 and saved it. Then I opened it in illustrator. It opened
the same as the previous file with no adjustment in the box - too big in
other words.
Since this was in jpeg, i tried again in tiff. Tiff did not read into
Illustrator at all. In bitmap, the file opened, but again there was no
change to the file at all.
Where ever you are placing it in the file - it does not seem to make any
change to how illustrator opens it up...
When I reset it in the edit mode it worked, but not out in the main screen
using the new boxes.
I will still use it, just scale it to 72% in illustrator for now. If you
need more screen grabs or anything else just let me know.
Thanks for all the help
Howard
Larry
I find
that Illustrator will scale PSD files, which are native Photoshop. I don't know
how easy it would be to create or manipulate those.
Dwight
-----Original Message-----From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
Behalf Of Larry FishSent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 4:26
AMTo: [email protected]: RE:
[compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
Howard,
Thanks for the feed
back. It appears that Illustrator pays no attention to the scaling information
contained in a Windows Bitmap. That means it is probably not worth the time to
trying pursue this tactic. It probably will ignore scaling information in
other bitmap formats too.
Larry
From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of HowardSent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:17
PMTo:
[email protected]: [compass-users] Re: Scaling
issue in Illustrator
It
is> on the main page, - the first window that you see when you first
run the> program. At the bottom of this First Window are two small
number-boxes.> These boxes allow you to control the scaling of the
bitmap.> > One of the boxes displays English Units and one
displays Metric Units. When> you read a bitmap into the Sketch Editor,
it reads the scale from the bitmap> and displays the results in the
boxes. You can change the value in the boxes> just before you save the
file and it will put those values into the file.Hi LarrySorry for
the delay - I am just now getting back to this.I do see the boxes you
describe. I took my original morphed sketch, and set this box to 70 and saved
it. Then I opened it in illustrator. It opened the same as the previous file
with no adjustment in the box - too big in other words.Since this was in
jpeg, i tried again in tiff. Tiff did not read into Illustrator at all. In
bitmap, the file opened, but again there was no change to the file at
all.Where ever you are placing it in the file - it does not seem to make
any change to how illustrator opens it up...When I reset it in the
edit mode it worked, but not out in the main screen using the new
boxes.I will still use it, just scale it to 72% in illustrator for
now. If you need more screen grabs or anything else just let me
know.Thanks for all the helpHoward
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:06:14 +0100
From: "Paul Taylor"
Subject: Exporting as a DXF File
Hello All,
I have been using Compass for many years and found that for my skill level
it has been very good and over the years I have advanced my knowledge and
produced some very satisfactory results. I have one survey with almost 110
km of data within it.
Recently I took part in a Caving Expedition to Montenegro and made use of
the Compass Programme to deal with the in field survey data processing.
Fortunately I had a copy on the Lap Top as the person who was to deal with
this work in another programme had a Memory Stick Failure so was not able to
do the work. This all worked very well.
On returning to the UK I was asked to produce some large scale line plots to
be sent to Egypt to be worked on. These I produced by Exporting the Plots as
DXF Files and put them into Corel Draw and then made them into pdf Files. Ok
I appreciate this may not be the most direct route but it worked and the
chap was able to easily read and print.
These were with NORTH straight up the page.
Due to the shape of the cave he has asked for some viewed at 285 deg in Plan
and Section. I have no difficulty in producing these in Viewer and then
making a new DXF File. However when they are imported into Corel Draw they
come in with the North Arrow straight up the page again.
I have to admit that I am not a computer wizard so I might be doing
something wrong but having achieved the first results without any problems I
am at a loss as to why it should not work the second time.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Best regards
Paul Taylor
Gloucester UK
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 02:17:54 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
Dwight,
Thanks, I'll look into that. The down side would be that it would only work
with Illustrator and not with Inkscape. Another option I've thought about is
a PDF file. I'll have to think about what the best approach might be.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Dwight Livingston
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:23 PM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
Larry
I find that Illustrator will scale PSD files, which are native Photoshop. I
don't know how easy it would be to create or manipulate those.
Dwight
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
Behalf Of Larry Fish
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 4:26 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
Howard,
Thanks for the feed back. It appears that Illustrator pays no attention to
the scaling information contained in a Windows Bitmap. That means it is
probably not worth the time to trying pursue this tactic. It probably will
ignore scaling information in other bitmap formats too.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Howard
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:17 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Re: Scaling issue in Illustrator
It is
on the main page, - the first window that you see when you first run the
program. At the bottom of this First Window are two small number-boxes.
These boxes allow you to control the scaling of the bitmap.
One of the boxes displays English Units and one displays Metric Units.
When
you read a bitmap into the Sketch Editor, it reads the scale from the
bitmap
and displays the results in the boxes. You can change the value in the
boxes
just before you save the file and it will put those values into the file.
Hi Larry
Sorry for the delay - I am just now getting back to this.
I do see the boxes you describe. I took my original morphed sketch, and set
this box to 70 and saved it. Then I opened it in illustrator. It opened the
same as the previous file with no adjustment in the box - too big in other
words.
Since this was in jpeg, i tried again in tiff. Tiff did not read into
Illustrator at all. In bitmap, the file opened, but again there was no
change to the file at all.
Where ever you are placing it in the file - it does not seem to make any
change to how illustrator opens it up...
When I reset it in the edit mode it worked, but not out in the main screen
using the new boxes.
I will still use it, just scale it to 72% in illustrator for now. If you
need more screen grabs or anything else just let me know.
Thanks for all the help
Howard
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 02:15:14 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Exporting as a DXF File
Hi Paul,
Compass does not export a DXF files with any rotation or scaling. In fact,
it exports that cave with the exact measurements that were found in the
cave. This is because the Autocad format is designed to represent real
objects ranging from mechanical drawings of machine parts to land surveys.
As a result, Autocad expects to be able to rotate, scale and manipulate the
file itself. I don't use Corel, and I only have 20 year-old version of the
program on my computer. Since Corel is a drawing program, it may not be able
to do these operations.
One option that you might want to look at is using the Compass SVG exporter.
SVG is a much better format for drawing programs. Looking at the Web I see
that Corel has been supporting the import of SVG files since version 10. The
SVG Exporter also allows you to preset the scale and rotate before you do
the export. It gives you a preview of what the cave will look like on paper.
It is also capable of taking an existing map and merging new or corrected
data into the SVG file. I don't know how well all this will work with Corel
because I'm mostly working with Adobe Illustrator and Inkscape.
You can get a copy of the SVG Exporter here:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/download.htm
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Paul Taylor
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 1:06 AM
Subject: [compass-users] Exporting as a DXF File
Hello All,
I have been using Compass for many years and found that for my skill level
it has been very good and over the years I have advanced my knowledge and
produced some very satisfactory results. I have one survey with almost 110
km of data within it.
Recently I took part in a Caving Expedition to Montenegro and made use of
the Compass Programme to deal with the in field survey data processing.
Fortunately I had a copy on the Lap Top as the person who was to deal with
this work in another programme had a Memory Stick Failure so was not able to
do the work. This all worked very well.
On returning to the UK I was asked to produce some large scale line plots to
be sent to Egypt to be worked on. These I produced by Exporting the Plots as
DXF Files and put them into Corel Draw and then made them into pdf Files. Ok
I appreciate this may not be the most direct route but it worked and the
chap was able to easily read and print.
These were with NORTH straight up the page.
Due to the shape of the cave he has asked for some viewed at 285 deg in Plan
and Section. I have no difficulty in producing these in Viewer and then
making a new DXF File. However when they are imported into Corel Draw they
come in with the North Arrow straight up the page again.
I have to admit that I am not a computer wizard so I might be doing
something wrong but having achieved the first results without any problems I
am at a loss as to why it should not work the second time.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Best regards
Paul Taylor
Gloucester UK
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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:01:04 -0000 From: [email protected] Subject: question re find survey/station in viewer Hello Larry and Everyone I have placed a jpg in the files menu titled compass viewr that shows the viewer and a plot line with the Find Survey/Station tool box open. When I highlight the survey I see dashed lines ( in amongst yellow in this example). what does it mean? Have I not done something in the data file. this is a file where all the legs have a c in the flag column and the legs have been x'd out in older surveys right along this traverse. They do only appear to be vertical lines but it is a high resolution image from the screen. I have searched the groups messages to no avail. Thanks for you help cheers Bob
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 05:07:46 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] question re find survey/station in viewer
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your question.
When you use the "Find Survey/Station" tool box, it highlights the Survey
you have selected. If you have selected a Station, it highlights the survey
that is associated with the Station.
The Survey is highlighted by draw a yellow line on top of the regular line.
The line is offset slightly so it will stand out. The interaction between
the highlight and the underlying lines can make it appear dotted depending
on things like the direction the line and the thickness of the plots lines
etc.
You haven't caused any damage to the file or surveys. The lines will
disappear when you close "Find Survey/Stations" tool box, unless you set the
"Leave Highlights On" checkbox.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 1:01 AM
Subject: [compass-users] question re find survey/station in viewer
Hello Larry and Everyone
I have placed a jpg in the files menu titled compass viewr that shows the
viewer and a plot line with the Find Survey/Station tool box open.
When I highlight the survey I see dashed lines ( in amongst yellow in this
example). what does it mean? Have I not done something in the data file.
this is a file where all the legs have a c in the flag column and the legs
have been x'd out in older surveys right along this traverse.
They do only appear to be vertical lines but it is a high resolution image
from the screen.
I have searched the groups messages to no avail.
Thanks for you help
cheers
Bob
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 05:30:56 -0000 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: question re find survey/station in viewer hello Larry thanks for the quick reply Yes I was aware of all the info you sent but my highlighted slightly offset line was blue over the balck survey line with these yellow lines in between. I had an idea that it may have been a duplicated leg from another survey that was not as yet x'd out. thanks Bob Hi Bob, Thanks for your question. When you use the "Find Survey/Station" tool box, it highlights the Survey you have selected. If you have selected a Station, it highlights the survey that is associated with the Station. The Survey is highlighted by draw a yellow line on top of the regular line. The line is offset slightly so it will stand out. The interaction between the highlight and the underlying lines can make it appear dotted depending on things like the direction the line and the thickness of the plots lines etc. You haven't caused any damage to the file or surveys. The lines will disappear when you close "Find Survey/Stations" tool box, unless you set the "Leave Highlights On" checkbox. Larry _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of rkershaw@... Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 1:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] question re find survey/station in viewer Hello Larry and Everyone I have placed a jpg in the files menu titled compass viewr that shows the viewer and a plot line with the Find Survey/Station tool box open. When I highlight the survey I see dashed lines ( in amongst yellow in this example). what does it mean? Have I not done something in the data file. this is a file where all the legs have a c in the flag column and the legs have been x'd out in older surveys right along this traverse. They do only appear to be vertical lines but it is a high resolution image from the screen. I have searched the groups messages to no avail. Thanks for you help cheers Bob
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 03:09:43 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: question re find survey/station in viewer
Hi Bob,
I couldn't quite tell from the image you posted, but there might have been
some passage-wall lines being shown too. Depending on the scale of the map,
how you have the Viewer configured and how you compiled the file, the
passage walls may show up right next to the shot-line. The same thing could
happen if you have shot with no LRUD's entered.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 11:31 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Re: question re find survey/station in viewer
hello Larry
thanks for the quick reply
Yes I was aware of all the info you sent but my highlighted slightly offset
line was blue over the balck survey line with these yellow lines in between.
I had an idea that it may have been a duplicated leg from another survey
that was not as yet x'd out.
thanks
Bob
, "Larry Fish" wrote:
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your question.
When you use the "Find Survey/Station" tool box, it highlights the Survey
you have selected. If you have selected a Station, it highlights the
survey
that is associated with the Station.
The Survey is highlighted by draw a yellow line on top of the regular
line.
The line is offset slightly so it will stand out. The interaction between
the highlight and the underlying lines can make it appear dotted depending
on things like the direction the line and the thickness of the plots lines
etc.
You haven't caused any damage to the file or surveys. The lines will
disappear when you close "Find Survey/Stations" tool box, unless you set
the
"Leave Highlights On" checkbox.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]
]
On Behalf Of rkershaw@...
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 1:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [compass-users] question re find survey/station in viewer
Hello Larry and Everyone
I have placed a jpg in the files menu titled compass viewr that shows the
viewer and a plot line with the Find Survey/Station tool box open.
When I highlight the survey I see dashed lines ( in amongst yellow in this
example). what does it mean? Have I not done something in the data file.
this is a file where all the legs have a c in the flag column and the legs
have been x'd out in older surveys right along this traverse.
They do only appear to be vertical lines but it is a high resolution image
from the screen.
I have searched the groups messages to no avail.
Thanks for you help
cheers
Bob
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 08:37:10 -0000 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: question re find survey/station in viewer hello LArry thanks, I will look into your suggestions Bob Hi Bob, I couldn't quite tell from the image you posted, but there might have been some passage-wall lines being shown too. Depending on the scale of the map, how you have the Viewer configured and how you compiled the file, the passage walls may show up right next to the shot-line. The same thing could happen if you have shot with no LRUD's entered. Larry _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of rkershaw@... Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 11:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] Re: question re find survey/station in viewer hello Larry thanks for the quick reply Yes I was aware of all the info you sent but my highlighted slightly offset line was blue over the balck survey line with these yellow lines in between. I had an idea that it may have been a duplicated leg from another survey that was not as yet x'd out. thanks Bob --- In [email protected] , "Larry Fish" wrote: Hi Bob, Thanks for your question. When you use the "Find Survey/Station" tool box, it highlights the Survey you have selected. If you have selected a Station, it highlights the survey that is associated with the Station. The Survey is highlighted by draw a yellow line on top of the regular line. The line is offset slightly so it will stand out. The interaction between the highlight and the underlying lines can make it appear dotted depending on things like the direction the line and the thickness of the plots lines etc. You haven't caused any damage to the file or surveys. The lines will disappear when you close "Find Survey/Stations" tool box, unless you set the "Leave Highlights On" checkbox. Larry _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] ] On Behalf Of rkershaw@ Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 1:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] question re find survey/station in viewer Hello Larry and Everyone I have placed a jpg in the files menu titled compass viewr that shows the viewer and a plot line with the Find Survey/Station tool box open. When I highlight the survey I see dashed lines ( in amongst yellow in this example). what does it mean? Have I not done something in the data file. this is a file where all the legs have a c in the flag column and the legs have been x'd out in older surveys right along this traverse. They do only appear to be vertical lines but it is a high resolution image from the screen. I have searched the groups messages to no avail. Thanks for you help cheers Bob
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 12:09:10 +0100 From: SN Subject: Incorrect scale bar in SVG Exporter Hi! I discovered the Compass SVG Exporter and decided to try it out. Unfortunately, after many tries, I concluded that this program makes an incorrect scale bar. The actual drawing scale, however, appears to be fine. Did someone had the some problem? I'm from Portugal, working in metric units, with the last versions of SVG Exporter (v.1.2010.03.18) and Compass Viewer (v.5.10.5.31.268). Regards Manuel Hi!I discovered the Compass SVG Exporter and decided to try it out. Unfortunately, after many tries, I concluded that this program makes an incorrect scale bar. The actual drawing scale, however, appears to be fine. Did someone had the some problem? I'm from Portugal, working in metric units, with the last versions of SVG Exporter (v.1.2010.03.18) and Compass Viewer (v.5.10.5.31.268).RegardsManuel
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 03:54:43 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Incorrect scale bar in SVG Exporter
Hi Manuel,
Thanks for your email. I've located the problem in the software and I should
have a fix for you in the next days or so. I just need a little time to work
on the problem and I should have some time tomorrow.
Larry Fish
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of SN
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 5:09 AM
Subject: [compass-users] Incorrect scale bar in SVG Exporter
Hi!
I discovered the Compass SVG Exporter and decided to try it out.
Unfortunately, after many tries, I concluded that this program makes an
incorrect scale bar. The actual drawing scale, however, appears to be fine.
Did someone had the some problem?
I'm from Portugal, working in metric units, with the last versions of SVG
Exporter (v.1.2010.03.18) and Compass Viewer (v.5.10.5.31.268).
Regards
Manuel
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 09:14:18 +0100 From: SN Subject: Re: [compass-users] Incorrect scale bar in SVG Exporter Thanks for your quick response! Suggestion Meanwhile, I don't know if this have been suggested already, but if SVG Exporter could export more than one view simultaneously (plan and profile), to the some drawing, it would be a great improvement. Manuel 2010/10/4 Larry Fish Hi Manuel, Thanks for your email. I've located the problem in the software and I should have a fix for you in the next days or so. I just need a little time to work on the problem and I should have some time tomorrow. Larry Fish ------------------------------ *From:* [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *SN *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 5:09 AM *To:* [email protected] *Subject:* [compass-users] Incorrect scale bar in SVG Exporter Hi! I discovered the Compass SVG Exporter and decided to try it out. Unfortunately, after many tries, I concluded that this program makes an incorrect scale bar. The actual drawing scale, however, appears to be fine. Did someone had the some problem? I'm from Portugal, working in metric units, with the last versions of SVG Exporter (v.1.2010.03.18) and Compass Viewer (v.5.10.5.31.268). Regards Manuel Thanks for your quick response!SuggestionMeanwhile, I don't know if this have been suggested already, but if SVG Exporter could export more than one view simultaneously (plan and profile), to the some drawing, it would be a great improvement. Manuel2010/10/4 Larry Fish <[email protected]> � Hi Manuel, � Thanks for your email. I've located the problem in the software and I should have a fix for you in the next days or so. I just need a little time to work on the problem and I should have some time tomorrow. � Larry Fish � From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of SN Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 5:09 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] Incorrect scale bar in SVG Exporter � � Hi! I discovered the Compass SVG Exporter and decided to try it out. Unfortunately, after many tries, I concluded that this program makes an incorrect scale bar. The actual drawing scale, however, appears to be fine. Did someone had the some problem? I'm from Portugal, working in metric units, with the last versions of SVG Exporter (v.1.2010.03.18) and Compass Viewer (v.5.10.5.31.268). Regards Manuel
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 02:37:35 -0600
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Incorrect scale bar in SVG Exporter
Hi Manuel,
I've fixed the problem you described and have uploaded a new version here:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/download.htm
I would like to be able to output both a plan and profile but it would be
quite difficult to do with all the other things the program does. This is
especially true with the morphing aspects. I'll put the idea on my list of
feature that people have requested and try to think of a way to do it.
Thank you very much for your feed back. It is very helpful to me because it
helps me find bugs.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of SN
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Incorrect scale bar in SVG Exporter
Thanks for your quick response!
Suggestion
Meanwhile, I don't know if this have been suggested already, but if SVG
Exporter could export more than one view simultaneously (plan and profile),
to the some drawing, it would be a great improvement.
Manuel
2010/10/4 Larry Fish
Hi Manuel,
Thanks for your email. I've located the problem in the software and I should
have a fix for you in the next days or so. I just need a little time to work
on the problem and I should have some time tomorrow.
Larry Fish
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of SN
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 5:09 AM
Subject: [compass-users] Incorrect scale bar in SVG Exporter
Hi!
I discovered the Compass SVG Exporter and decided to try it out.
Unfortunately, after many tries, I concluded that this program makes an
incorrect scale bar. The actual drawing scale, however, appears to be fine.
Did someone had the some problem?
I'm from Portugal, working in metric units, with the last versions of SVG
Exporter (v.1.2010.03.18) and Compass Viewer (v.5.10.5.31.268).
Regards
Manuel
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 03:11:38 -0600 From: "Larry Fish" Subject: SVG Plugin Problems with Internet Explorer. This little warning that might save people some time and aggravation. PROBLEM. The "Adobe SVG Plugin" for webs browsers will cause Internet Explorer 8 to hang, lockup and behave strangely. BACKGROUND. Adobe has a plugin for Internet Browsers that allows it to display SVG files and drawings. Since cave maps are often rendered as SVG files, it is sometimes useful to install the plugin to view cave maps. The plugin can be found here: http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/ Adobe discontinued support for the Plugin on January 1st, 2009. TRACKING DOWN THE PROBLEM. I had noticed the problem with Internet Explorer for months. At first I thought it was a bug in Internet Explorer and I assumed would be fixed with one of Microsoft's updates. When that didn't' happen, I searched the internet for solutions, but nothing worked. Finally, I discovered that if I turned off all plugins, the problem went away. Since I had a couple dozen plugins, it took a several days of trial and error before I found the culprit. SOLUTIONS. The solution to the problem is to turn off the plugin until you really need it. Here are instructions for disabling the plugin: 1. Run Internet Explorer. If you have the "Menu Bar" enabled in Internet Explorer, select the "Tools - Manage Add Ons" option. If you don't have the Menu Bar enabled, press the "Tools" button (it has a little "Gear" icon) and select the "Manage Add-Ons" option. 2. In the Left Panel, under "Add-on Types," select "Toolbars and Extensions." 3. In the list on the Right side, locate the "SVG Document" item. It will be in a section labeled "Adobe Systems Incorporated." Highlight the item by clicking on it and press the "Disable" button that appears in the lower right corner. The plugin will be disabled and will stop causing problems. RE-ENABLING THE PLUGIN. You can use the same process described above to re-enable the SVG Viewer. You can do this any time you want to view an SVG image or view a web page with SVG embedded in it. OTHER PLUGINS. There are some other plugin available. I tested one and it actually had more problems than the Adobe Plugin. OTHER BROWSERS. Other browser like Opera, Safari, Google Chrome and Firefox support SVG without the need for a plugin. The support is not always complete. This link provides more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 03:18:14 -0600 From: "Larry Fish" Subject: SVG Plugin Problems with Internet Explorer. Let's see if I can make that message a little more readable: SVG Plugin Problems with Internet Explorer. This little warning that might save people some time and aggravation. PROBLEM. The "Adobe SVG Plugin" for webs browsers will cause Internet Explorer 8 to hang, lockup and behave strangely BACKGROUND. Adobe has a plugin for Internet Browsers that allows it to display SVG files and drawings. Since cave maps are often rendered as SVG files, it is sometimes useful to install the plugin to view cave maps. The plugin can be found here: http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/ Adobe discontinued support for the Plugin on January 1st, 2009. TRACKING DOWN THE PROBLEM. I had noticed the problem with Internet Explorer for months. At first I thought it was a bug in Internet Explorer and I assumed would be fixed with one of Microsoft's updates. When that didn't' happen, I searched the internet for solutions, but nothing worked. Finally, I discovered that if I turned off all plugins, the problem went away. Since I had a couple dozen plugins, it took a several day of trial and error before I found the culprit. SOLUTIONS. The solution to the problem is to turn off the plugin until you really need it. Here are instructions for disabling the plugin: 1. Run Internet Explorer. If you have the "Menu Bar" enabled in Internet Explorer, select the "Tools - Manage Add Ons" option. If you don't have the Menu Bar enabled, press the "Tools" button (it has a little "Gear" icon) and select the "Manage Add-Ons" option. 2. In the Left Panel, under "Add-on Types," select "Toolbars and Extensions." 3. In the list on the Right side, locate the "SVG Document" item. It will be in a section labeled "Adobe Systems Incorporated." Highlight the item by clicking on it and press the "Disable" button that appears in the lower right corner. The plugin will be disabled and will stop causing problems. RE-ENABLING THE PLUGIN. You can use the same process described above to re-enable the SVG Viewer. You can do this any time you want to view an SVG image or view a web page with SVG embedded in it. OTHER PLUGINS. There are some other plugin available. I tested one and it actually had more problems than the Adobe Plugin. OTHER BROWSERS. Other browser like Opera, Safari, Google Chrome and Firefox support SVG without the need for a plugin. The support is not always complete. This link provides more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 08:52:58 -0500 From: "Ken Bailey" Subject: Project Files This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the project manager. I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that day but for now those records are in the field notes. Thanks Ken Content-Description: HTML This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the project manager. I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that day but for now those records are in the field notes. Thanks Ken
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 08:37:08 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Subject: Re: [compass-users] Project Files you need to use Project Manager. Then add surveys to Project Manager. That is my understanding. From: Ken Bailey Subject: [compass-users] Project Files Date: Tuesday, December 21, 2010, 5:52 AM This may have been asked but I can't find it.� I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave.� I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually.� I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave.� I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have.� If someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the project manager.� I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that day but for now those records are in the field notes. Thanks Ken you need to use Project Manager. Then add surveys to Project Manager. That is my understanding.--- On Tue, 12/21/10, Ken Bailey <[email protected]> wrote: From: Ken Bailey <[email protected]>Subject: [compass-users] Project FilesTo: [email protected]: Tuesday, December 21, 2010, 5:52 AM
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 11:49:44 -0500
From: Tony Canike
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Project Files
Ken,
I usually keep all the surveys for a whole cave in one .dat file and
just use the project file (.mak) to set coordinates for the entrance(s)
so I can plot in on Google Earth. You don't need to use a project, but
it does give you some advantages once you get deeper into your
project. When I was learning Compass I didn't use any projects at
first, there was a lot to figure out and I took things one step at a time.
A "survey" is usually one day's effort for one team. For each survey
you can record the date, personnel, instrument corrections, declination,
etc. If there are two separate teams in one cave on one day using
different instruments, I will record that data as two separate surveys.
A "file" (.dat file) contains one or more "surveys". Often it will
contain all the surveys (and thus all the survey data) for one cave.
A "project" (.mak file) uses one or more "files". You don't need to
always have a project, especially for simple caves.
I encourage you to record all the information about each survey team in
the "survey" - it could be very useful to someone 20 years from now.
This goes in the "heading" for each "survey" - take a look at the "Edit
Heading" tab in the survey editor.
If your cave is large, you can organize the "surveys" into a few
"files". Each "file" might contain the surveys for separate sections of
a large cave, or different levels of a cave so you can turn the various
levels on and off in the plot.
If you have multiple caves near by each other, you can setup a "project"
to link all the "files" together so you can see the relationships.
If you know the entrance coordinates, you can setup a "project" to set
the entrance coordinates so you can export a KML file to plot on Google
Earth (this is really cool and pretty easy!)
Hope that helps,
N%�
PS Larry does have a lot of great information on his website. This
page might help you:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/wdetails.htm
On 12/21/2010 8:52 AM, Ken Bailey ([email protected]) wrote
This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help
about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or
how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. I have
tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a
Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have
just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the
entire cave. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the
whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just
clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If someone
could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the
project manager. I like the idea that I can put the survey team in
for that day but for now those records are in the field notes.
Thanks
Ken
Ken,
I usually keep all the surveys for a whole cave in one .dat file and
just use the project file (.mak) to set coordinates for the
entrance(s) so I can plot in on Google Earth. You don't need to use
a project, but it does give you some advantages once you get deeper
into your project. When I was learning Compass I didn't use any
projects at first, there was a lot to figure out and I took things
one step at a time.
A "survey" is usually one day's effort for one team. For each
survey you can record the date, personnel, instrument corrections,
declination, etc. If there are two separate teams in one cave
on one day using different instruments, I will record that data as
two separate surveys.
A "file" (.dat file) contains one or more "surveys". Often it will
contain all the surveys (and thus all the survey data) for one
cave.
A "project" (.mak file) uses one or more "files". You don't need
to always have a project, especially for simple caves.
I encourage you to record all the information about each survey team
in the "survey" - it could be very useful to someone 20 years from
now. This goes in the "heading" for each "survey" - take a look at
the "Edit Heading" tab in the survey editor.
If your cave is large, you can organize the "surveys" into a few
"files". Each "file" might contain the surveys for separate
sections of a large cave, or different levels of a cave so you can
turn the various levels on and off in the plot.
If you have multiple caves near by each other, you can setup a
"project" to link all the "files" together so you can see the
relationships.
If you know the entrance coordinates, you can setup a "project" to
set the entrance coordinates so you can export a KML file to plot on
Google Earth (this is really cool and pretty easy!)
Hope that helps,
Tony
PS Larry does have a lot of great information on his website. This
page might help you:
http://www.fountainware.com/compass/wdetails.htm
On 12/21/2010 8:52 AM, Ken Bailey ([email protected]) wrote
This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have
read the help about project files but I don't understand
why I should use them or how to get all the different
surveys to draw as one cave. I have tried putting the
survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a
Project but I wind up just looking at each one
individually. I have just wound up going back to one
survey file so I can look at the entire cave. I have
played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole
project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just
clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If
someone could explain the big picture I would go back and
try to use the project manager. I like the idea that I
can put the survey team in for that day but for now those
records are in the field notes.
Thanks
Ken
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 15:58:32 -0700 From: "Larry Fish" Subject: RE: [compass-users] Project Files Hi Ken, Thanks for your questions. There have already been some good answers. I will add a few more things. This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. Project files are a way organize a cave or a cave system. They don't actually contain any survey data. They only contain a list files that will be compiled together. You use them in two situations: I. CAVE SYSTEMS. Projects are use to organize multiple caves into a system. For example, we have a caving area here in Colorado called Williams Canyon. There are about 20 or 30 caves in and around the Canyon. With a project file, I can create a combined plot that includes all the caves in the canyon. I can also create a different project files that only parts of the canyon. For example, I have one that contains the caves on the East side the canyon and another that contains the caves on the West side. I probably have 10 different project files for Williams Canyon, each one groups a different combination of caves together. The important thing to understand is that each cave can be included more than one Project File. II. LARGE CAVES. When caves get beyond a certain size, it is awkward to have them in a single file. For example, Lechuguilla is large enough that it has been divided up into seven files, where each contains a different region of the cave. Lechuguilla has the "Entrance," "Near East," "Far East," "South," etc. The project file is then used to put all those pieces together. You don't need project files for small to medium caves. There is really no limit to the size of a DAT file, but most people start splitting the cave up into separate file when it reaches about 20 to 50 miles in length. Although Compass will handle it, I would not put each survey into a separate file. That clutters up the disk and makes it hard to do certain things. III. GEO-REFERENCING. You can only tie a cave to Longitude/Latitude or UTM coordinates through a survey project. I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave. Generally, you don't want to put a single weekend's worth of data in a separate file. In general, you want to keep between 20 and 50 miles of cave in a single file. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. When you first start out with a new cave, you probably don't want to create a project. You just want an empty survey file to add data to. So, to start with, you would select the "File - Create New Survey File." Then you would keep adding data to that same file until it reaches about 20 to 50 miles of cave. You will only need a Project at the point that you are ready to: 1) Geo-reference, 2) breakup the cave or 3) group several caves together into a system. At that point you use the Wizard: The Wizard will ask you which files you want in the project. You just keep adding files until you have everything you need. Even after you have created a project, you can still work the individual files by themselves. You only need the project when you want to view all the files together. The only really tricky part comes in when you group together separate caves that have duplicate station names. That's where the "linking" process comes in. I won't describe it right now because you probably won't be needing it for a while and it is confusing. Let me know if you have more questions. Larry ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Bailey Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:53 AM Subject: [compass-users] Project Files � This may have been asked but I can't find it.� I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave.� I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually.� I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave.� I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have.� If someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the project manager.� I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that day but for now those records are in the field notes. Thanks Ken
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 19:48:59 -0000 From: "Tom" Subject: Re: Project Files I have a project file for Bigfoot Cave and it is divided into about 6 surveys. The one survey won't open, it gives a "dat file too big". Bigfoot is about 16 miles long. Hi Ken, Thanks for your questions. There have already been some good answers. I will add a few more things. This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. Project files are a way organize a cave or a cave system. They don't actually contain any survey data. They only contain a list files that will be compiled together. You use them in two situations: I. CAVE SYSTEMS. Projects are use to organize multiple caves into a system. For example, we have a caving area here in Colorado called Williams Canyon. There are about 20 or 30 caves in and around the Canyon. With a project file, I can create a combined plot that includes all the caves in the canyon. I can also create a different project files that only parts of the canyon. For example, I have one that contains the caves on the East side the canyon and another that contains the caves on the West side. I probably have 10 different project files for Williams Canyon, each one groups a different combination of caves together. The important thing to understand is that each cave can be included more than one Project File. II. LARGE CAVES. When caves get beyond a certain size, it is awkward to have them in a single file. For example, Lechuguilla is large enough that it has been divided up into seven files, where each contains a different region of the cave. Lechuguilla has the "Entrance," "Near East," "Far East," "South," etc. The project file is then used to put all those pieces together. You don't need project files for small to medium caves. There is really no limit to the size of a DAT file, but most people start splitting the cave up into separate file when it reaches about 20 to 50 miles in length. Although Compass will handle it, I would not put each survey into a separate file. That clutters up the disk and makes it hard to do certain things. III. GEO-REFERENCING. You can only tie a cave to Longitude/Latitude or UTM coordinates through a survey project. I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave. Generally, you don't want to put a single weekend's worth of data in a separate file. In general, you want to keep between 20 and 50 miles of cave in a single file. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. When you first start out with a new cave, you probably don't want to create a project. You just want an empty survey file to add data to. So, to start with, you would select the "File - Create New Survey File." Then you would keep adding data to that same file until it reaches about 20 to 50 miles of cave. You will only need a Project at the point that you are ready to: 1) Geo-reference, 2) breakup the cave or 3) group several caves together into a system. At that point you use the Wizard: The Wizard will ask you which files you want in the project. You just keep adding files until you have everything you need. Even after you have created a project, you can still work the individual files by themselves. You only need the project when you want to view all the files together. The only really tricky part comes in when you group together separate caves that have duplicate station names. That's where the "linking" process comes in. I won't describe it right now because you probably won't be needing it for a while and it is confusing. Let me know if you have more questions. Larry ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Bailey Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] Project Files � This may have been asked but I can't find it.� I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave.� I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually.� I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave.� I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have.� If someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the project manager.� I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that day but for now those records are in the field notes. Thanks Ken
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 14:01:49 -0700
From: "Larry Fish"
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Project Files
Hi Tom,
You are probably getting that message because the file is corrupted. Faulty
data in a file can cause Compass to read past the end of the file or do
other things that can cause this kind of message. There are lots of caves
in Compass much bigger than 16 miles, so size is not the issue. Problems
like this are usually caused by someone editing the file with a Text editor.
Some text editors will leave extra characters in the file or will remove
characters that Compass needs find the beginnings of surveys. The problem
can also be cause by disk data corruption.
I can easily fix any file problems like this, so your best choice is
probably to send me a copy of the file. I will send you an email directly
to your private email address with my private email address and
instructions. I will be using the email address that is attached to your
Yahoo account. Let me know through Yahoo if you don't receive my private
email.
Larry
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Tom
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 12:49 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Re: Project Files
I have a project file for Bigfoot Cave and it is divided into about 6
surveys. The one survey won't open, it gives a "dat file too big". Bigfoot
is about 16 miles long.
, "Larry Fish" wrote:
Hi Ken,
Thanks for your questions. There have already been some good answers. I
will
add a few more things.
This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read
the help about project files but I don't understand why I
should use them or how to get all the different surveys to
draw as one cave.
Project files are a way organize a cave or a cave system. They don't
actually contain any survey data. They only contain a list files that will
be compiled together. You use them in two situations:
I. CAVE SYSTEMS. Projects are use to organize multiple caves into a
system.
For example, we have a caving area here in Colorado called Williams
Canyon.
There are about 20 or 30 caves in and around the Canyon. With a project
file, I can create a combined plot that includes all the caves in the
canyon. I can also create a different project files that only parts of the
canyon. For example, I have one that contains the caves on the East side
the
canyon and another that contains the caves on the West side. I probably
have
10 different project files for Williams Canyon, each one groups a
different
combination of caves together. The important thing to understand is that
each cave can be included more than one Project File.
II. LARGE CAVES. When caves get beyond a certain size, it is awkward to
have
them in a single file. For example, Lechuguilla is large enough that it
has
been divided up into seven files, where each contains a different region
of
the cave. Lechuguilla has the "Entrance," "Near East," "Far East,"
"South,"
etc. The project file is then used to put all those pieces together.
You don't need project files for small to medium caves. There is really no
limit to the size of a DAT file, but most people start splitting the cave
up
into separate file when it reaches about 20 to 50 miles in length.
Although Compass will handle it, I would not put each survey into a
separate
file. That clutters up the disk and makes it hard to do certain things.
III. GEO-REFERENCING. You can only tie a cave to Longitude/Latitude or UTM
coordinates through a survey project.
I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a
separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at
each one individually. I have just wound up going back to
one survey file so I can look at the entire cave.
Generally, you don't want to put a single weekend's worth of data in a
separate file. In general, you want to keep between 20 and 50 miles of
cave
in a single file.
I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole
project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just
clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have.
When you first start out with a new cave, you probably don't want to
create
a project. You just want an empty survey file to add data to. So, to start
with, you would select the "File - Create New Survey File." Then you
would
keep adding data to that same file until it reaches about 20 to 50 miles
of
cave.
You will only need a Project at the point that you are ready to: 1)
Geo-reference, 2) breakup the cave or 3) group several caves together into
a
system. At that point you use the Wizard:
The Wizard will ask you which files you want in the project. You just keep
adding files until you have everything you need. Even after you have
created
a project, you can still work the individual files by themselves. You only
need the project when you want to view all the files together.
The only really tricky part comes in when you group together separate
caves
that have duplicate station names. That's where the "linking" process
comes
in. I won't describe it right now because you probably won't be needing it
for a while and it is confusing.
Let me know if you have more questions.
Larry
________________________________________
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]
]
On Behalf Of Ken Bailey
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [compass-users] Project Files
This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about
project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get
all
the different surveys to draw as one cave. I have tried putting the
survey
from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just
looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one
survey file so I can look at the entire cave. I have played with the
wizard
but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I
really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If
someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the
project manager. I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for
that
day but for now those records are in the field notes.
Thanks
Ken
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 10:31:55 -0500 From: "Ken Bailey" Subject: [compass-users] Re: Project Files Larry, Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I guess what is confusing me then is that I have a place to enter the survey team and the particulars only once on a survey and the team changes from trip to trip so that information stays in my notes while the original compass survey entry just gets further out of date. I guess what I had envisioned was the project allowing me to enter each trip's team information after each trip and keeping stats on how much help and where in the cave people gave their time. Maybe there is a way to do what I am wanting and I just can't find it. I have only gotten serious about using the software this summer so there is a lot I don't know and I can't seem to find it in the help. What I had done is break up every survey trip into a multiple surveys so I could enter the team data and then try to get a project to draw them together. I wound up having to put it all in one survey file to draw the cave which it looks like the way to do it. The cave I am working on is about 2.5 miles long so one file will be enough but I am having to keep a second file of who did what and when and how much. I have to say my field work has improved greatly with the software keeping more honest I am wanting to go back and redo some of my old work. Thanks for the software and the explanation. I am having people in my grotto ask me to teach them how to use the software and I am far from an expert so I will probably have more dumb questions in the future but I promise only after I have read the help. Ken "Tom" 12/29/2010 2:48 PM I have a project file for Bigfoot Cave and it is divided into about 6 surveys. The one survey won't open, it gives a "dat file too big". Bigfoot is about 16 miles long. --- In [email protected], "Larry Fish" wrote: Hi Ken, Thanks for your questions. There have already been some good answers. I will add a few more things. This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. Project files are a way organize a cave or a cave system. They don't actually contain any survey data. They only contain a list files that will be compiled together. You use them in two situations: I. CAVE SYSTEMS. Projects are use to organize multiple caves into a system. For example, we have a caving area here in Colorado called Williams Canyon. There are about 20 or 30 caves in and around the Canyon. With a project file, I can create a combined plot that includes all the caves in the canyon. I can also create a different project files that only parts of the canyon. For example, I have one that contains the caves on the East side the canyon and another that contains the caves on the West side. I probably have 10 different project files for Williams Canyon, each one groups a different combination of caves together. The important thing to understand is that each cave can be included more than one Project File. II. LARGE CAVES. When caves get beyond a certain size, it is awkward to have them in a single file. For example, Lechuguilla is large enough that it has been divided up into seven files, where each contains a different region of the cave. Lechuguilla has the "Entrance," "Near East," "Far East," "South," etc. The project file is then used to put all those pieces together. You don't need project files for small to medium caves. There is really no limit to the size of a DAT file, but most people start splitting the cave up into separate file when it reaches about 20 to 50 miles in length. Although Compass will handle it, I would not put each survey into a separate file. That clutters up the disk and makes it hard to do certain things. III. GEO-REFERENCING. You can only tie a cave to Longitude/Latitude or UTM coordinates through a survey project. I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave. Generally, you don't want to put a single weekend's worth of data in a separate file. In general, you want to keep between 20 and 50 miles of cave in a single file. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. When you first start out with a new cave, you probably don't want to create a project. You just want an empty survey file to add data to. So, to start with, you would select the "File - Create New Survey File." Then you would keep adding data to that same file until it reaches about 20 to 50 miles of cave. You will only need a Project at the point that you are ready to: 1) Geo-reference, 2) breakup the cave or 3) group several caves together into a system. At that point you use the Wizard: The Wizard will ask you which files you want in the project. You just keep adding files until you have everything you need. Even after you have created a project, you can still work the individual files by themselves. You only need the project when you want to view all the files together. The only really tricky part comes in when you group together separate caves that have duplicate station names. That's where the "linking" process comes in. I won't describe it right now because you probably won't be needing it for a while and it is confusing. Let me know if you have more questions. Larry ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Bailey Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] Project Files This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the project manager. I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that day but for now those records are in the field notes. Thanks Ken Larry, Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I guess what is confusing me then is that I have a place to enter the survey team and the particulars only once on a survey and the team changes from trip to trip so that information stays in my notes while the original compass survey entry just gets further out of date. I guess what I had envisioned was the project allowing me to enter each trip's team information after each trip and keeping stats on how much help and where in the cave people gave their time. Maybe there is a way to do what I am wanting and I just can't find it. I have only gotten serious about using the software this summer so there is a lot I don't know and I can't seem to find it in the help. What I had done is break up every survey trip into a multiple surveys so I could enter the team data and then try to get a project to draw them together. I wound up having to put it all in one survey file to draw the cave which it looks like the way to do it. The cave I am working on is about 2.5 miles long so one file will be enough but I am having to keep a second file of who did what and when and how much. I have to say my field work has improved greatly with the software keeping more honest I am wanting to go back and redo some of my old work. Thanks for the software and the explanation. I am having people in my grotto ask me to teach them how to use the software and I am far from an expert so I will probably have more dumb questions in the future but I promise only after I have read the help. Ken>>> "Tom" <[email protected]> 12/29/2010 2:48 PM >>> I have a project file for Bigfoot Cave and it is divided into about 6 surveys. The one survey won't open, it gives a "dat file too big". Bigfoot is about 16 miles long.--- In [email protected], "Larry Fish" <lfish@...> wrote:>> Hi Ken,> > Thanks for your questions. There have already been some good answers. I will> add a few more things.> > This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read> > the help about project files but I don't understand why I> > should use them or how to get all the different surveys to> > draw as one cave.> > Project files are a way organize a cave or a cave system. They don't> actually contain any survey data. They only contain a list files that will> be compiled together. You use them in two situations:> > I. CAVE SYSTEMS. Projects are use to organize multiple caves into a system.> For example, we have a caving area here in Colorado called Williams Canyon.> There are about 20 or 30 caves in and around the Canyon. With a project> file, I can create a combined plot that includes all the caves in the> canyon. I can also create a different project files that only parts of the> canyon. For example, I have one that contains the caves on the East side the> canyon and another that contains the caves on the West side. I probably have> 10 different project files for Williams Canyon, each one groups a different> combination of caves together. The important thing to understand is that> each cave can be included more than one Project File. > > II. LARGE CAVES. When caves get beyond a certain size, it is awkward to have> them in a single file. For example, Lechuguilla is large enough that it has> been divided up into seven files, where each contains a different region of> the cave. Lechuguilla has the "Entrance," "Near East," "Far East," "South,"> etc. The project file is then used to put all those pieces together. > > You don't need project files for small to medium caves. There is really no> limit to the size of a DAT file, but most people start splitting the cave up> into separate file when it reaches about 20 to 50 miles in length.> > Although Compass will handle it, I would not put each survey into a separate> file. That clutters up the disk and makes it hard to do certain things.> > III. GEO-REFERENCING. You can only tie a cave to Longitude/Latitude or UTM> coordinates through a survey project.> > > I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a> > separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at> > each one individually. I have just wound up going back to> > one survey file so I can look at the entire cave.> > Generally, you don't want to put a single weekend's worth of data in a> separate file. In general, you want to keep between 20 and 50 miles of cave> in a single file. > > > I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole> > project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just> > clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have.> > When you first start out with a new cave, you probably don't want to create> a project. You just want an empty survey file to add data to. So, to start> with, you would select the "File -> Create New Survey File." Then you would> keep adding data to that same file until it reaches about 20 to 50 miles of> cave.> > You will only need a Project at the point that you are ready to: 1)> Geo-reference, 2) breakup the cave or 3) group several caves together into a> system. At that point you use the Wizard:> > The Wizard will ask you which files you want in the project. You just keep> adding files until you have everything you need. Even after you have created> a project, you can still work the individual files by themselves. You only> need the project when you want to view all the files together.> > The only really tricky part comes in when you group together separate caves> that have duplicate station names. That's where the "linking" process comes> in. I won't describe it right now because you probably won't be needing it> for a while and it is confusing.> > Let me know if you have more questions.> > Larry> > ________________________________________> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]> On Behalf Of Ken Bailey> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:53 AM> To: [email protected]> Subject: [compass-users] Project Files> > > This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about> project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all> the different surveys to draw as one cave. I have tried putting the survey> from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just> looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one> survey file so I can look at the entire cave. I have played with the wizard> but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I> really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If> someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the> project manager. I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that> day but for now those records are in the field notes.> Thanks> Ken>mVoX�AX�A
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 18:53:52 +0100 From: "Paul De Bie" Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Project Files Hi Ken, Everything is very well explained in the Help. The Help in Compass is outstanding. But to make a few things clear. A DAT file is not a survey. A DAT files is a collection of surveys (sessions or trips, call it as you like). For each survey you can enter date, team, some remarks, units, magnetic deviation etc. A DAT file is most of the time 1 cave. If you have different caves in the same area, you might want to group them together so you can plot them together or export them to Google Earth or so. That's where you will need a Project (MAK file). You can then fix the entrance (or better: a particular shot) by entering their UTM coordinates in a so called "DAT File Node". I will send you a project (MAK) that consists out of a handful of caves (so multiple DAT files) and in each DAT file there is a bunch of surveys. Play with it and things will become clear I hope. Here's a screenprint of the project: The first DAT file has got another icon (the purple book) because it is a file node. If you doubleclick it, you will open a dialog in which you will see the fixed UTM coordinates for the cave entrances. HTH Paul De Bie http://www.scavalon.be http://scavalon.blogspot.com _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Bailey Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:32 PM Subject: [compass-users] Re: Project Files Larry, Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I guess what is confusing me then is that I have a place to enter the survey team and the particulars only once on a survey and the team changes from trip to trip so that information stays in my notes while the original compass survey entry just gets further out of date. I guess what I had envisioned was the project allowing me to enter each trip's team information after each trip and keeping stats on how much help and where in the cave people gave their time. Maybe there is a way to do what I am wanting and I just can't find it. I have only gotten serious about using the software this summer so there is a lot I don't know and I can't seem to find it in the help. What I had done is break up every survey trip into a multiple surveys so I could enter the team data and then try to get a project to draw them together. I wound up having to put it all in one survey file to draw the cave which it looks like the way to do it. The cave I am working on is about 2.5 miles long so one file will be enough but I am having to keep a second file of who did what and when and how much. I have to say my field work has improved greatly with the software keeping more honest I am wanting to go back and redo some of my old work. Thanks for the software and the explanation. I am having people in my grotto ask me to teach them how to use the software and I am far from an expert so I will probably have more dumb questions in the future but I promise only after I have read the help. Ken "Tom" 12/29/2010 2:48 PM I have a project file for Bigfoot Cave and it is divided into about 6 surveys. The one survey won't open, it gives a "dat file too big". Bigfoot is about 16 miles long. Hi Ken, Thanks for your questions. There have already been some good answers. I will add a few more things. This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. Project files are a way organize a cave or a cave system. They don't actually contain any survey data. They only contain a list files that will be compiled together. You use them in two situations: I. CAVE SYSTEMS. Projects are use to organize multiple caves into a system. For example, we have a caving area here in Colorado called Williams Canyon. There are about 20 or 30 caves in and around the Canyon. With a project file, I can create a combined plot that includes all the caves in the canyon. I can also create a different project files that only parts of the canyon. For example, I have one that contains the caves on the East side the canyon and another that contains the caves on the West side. I probably have 10 different project files for Williams Canyon, each one groups a different combination of caves together. The important thing to understand is that each cave can be included more than one Project File. II. LARGE CAVES. When caves get beyond a certain size, it is awkward to have them in a single file. For example, Lechuguilla is large enough that it has been divided up into seven files, where each contains a different region of the cave. Lechuguilla has the "Entrance," "Near East," "Far East," "South," etc. The project file is then used to put all those pieces together. You don't need project files for small to medium caves. There is really no limit to the size of a DAT file, but most people start splitting the cave up into separate file when it reaches about 20 to 50 miles in length. Although Compass will handle it, I would not put each survey into a separate file. That clutters up the disk and makes it hard to do certain things. III. GEO-REFERENCING. You can only tie a cave to Longitude/Latitude or UTM coordinates through a survey project. I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave. Generally, you don't want to put a single weekend's worth of data in a separate file. In general, you want to keep between 20 and 50 miles of cave in a single file. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. When you first start out with a new cave, you probably don't want to create a project. You just want an empty survey file to add data to. So, to start with, you would select the "File - Create New Survey File." Then you would keep adding data to that same file until it reaches about 20 to 50 miles of cave. You will only need a Project at the point that you are ready to: 1) Geo-reference, 2) breakup the cave or 3) group several caves together into a system. At that point you use the Wizard: The Wizard will ask you which files you want in the project. You just keep adding files until you have everything you need. Even after you have created a project, you can still work the individual files by themselves. You only need the project when you want to view all the files together. The only really tricky part comes in when you group together separate caves that have duplicate station names. That's where the "linking" process comes in. I won't describe it right now because you probably won't be needing it for a while and it is confusing. Let me know if you have more questions. Larry ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Bailey Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] Project Files This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the project manager. I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that day but for now those records are in the field notes. Thanks Ken Hi Ken, Everything is very well explained in the Help. The Help in Compass is outstanding. But to make a few things clear. A DAT file is not a survey. A DAT files is a collection of surveys (sessions or trips, call it as you like). For each survey you can enter date, team, some remarks, units, magnetic deviation etc. A DAT file is most of the time 1 cave. If you have different caves in the same area, you might want to group them together so you can plot them together or export them to Google Earth or so. That's where you will need a Project (MAK file). You can then fix the entrance (or better: a particular shot) by entering their UTM coordinates in a so called "DAT File Node". I will send you a project (MAK) that consists out of a handful of caves (so multiple DAT files) and in each DAT file there is a bunch of surveys. Play with it and things will become clear I hope. Here's a screenprint of the project: The first DAT file has got another icon (the purple book) because it is a file node. If you doubleclick it, you will open a dialog in which you will see the fixed UTM coordinates for the cave entrances. HTH Paul De Biehttp://www.scavalon.behttp://scavalon.blogspot.com From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken BaileySent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:32 PMTo: [email protected]: [compass-users] Re: Project Files Larry, Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I guess what is confusing me then is that I have a place to enter the survey team and the particulars only once on a survey and the team changes from trip to trip so that information stays in my notes while the original compass survey entry just gets further out of date. I guess what I had envisioned was the project allowing me to enter each trip's team information after each trip and keeping stats on how much help and where in the cave people gave their time. Maybe there is a way to do what I am wanting and I just can't find it. I have only gotten serious about using the software this summer so there is a lot I don't know and I can't seem to find it in the help. What I had done is break up every survey trip into a multiple surveys so I could enter the team data and then try to get a project to draw them together. I wound up having to put it all in one survey file to draw the cave which it looks like the way to do it. The cave I am working on is about 2.5 miles long so one file will be enough but I am having to keep a second file of who did what and when and how much. I have to say my field work has improved greatly with the software keeping more honest I am wanting to go back and redo some of my old work. Thanks for the software and the explanation. I am having people in my grotto ask me to teach them how to use the software and I am far from an expert so I will probably have more dumb questions in the future but I promise only after I have read the help. Ken>>> "Tom" <[email protected]> 12/29/2010 2:48 PM >>> I have a project file for Bigfoot Cave and it is divided into about 6 surveys. The one survey won't open, it gives a "dat file too big". Bigfoot is about 16 miles long.--- In [email protected], "Larry Fish" <lfish@...> wrote:>> Hi Ken,> > Thanks for your questions. There have already been some good answers. I will> add a few more things.> > This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read> > the help about project files but I don't understand why I> > should use them or how to get all the different surveys to> > draw as one cave.> > Project files are a way organize a cave or a cave system. They don't> actually contain any survey data. They only contain a list files that will> be compiled together. You use them in two situations:> > I. CAVE SYSTEMS. Projects are use to organize multiple caves into a system.> For example, we have a caving area here in Colorado called Williams Canyon.> There are about 20 or 30 caves in and around the Canyon. With a project> file, I can create a combined plot that includes all the caves in the> canyon. I can also create a different project files that only parts of the> canyon. For example, I have one that contains the caves on the East side the> canyon and another that contains the caves on the West side. I probably have> 10 different project files for Williams Canyon, each one groups a different> combination of caves together. The important thing to understand is that> each cave can be included more than one Project File. > > II. LARGE CAVES. When caves get beyond a certain size, it is awkward to have> them in a single file. For example, Lechuguilla is large enough that it has> been divided up into seven files, where each contains a different region of> the cave. Lechuguilla has the "Entrance," "Near East," "Far East," "South,"> etc. The project file is then used to put all those pieces together. > > You don't need project files for small to medium caves. There is really no> limit to the size of a DAT file, but most people start splitting the cave up> into separate file when it reaches about 20 to 50 miles in length.> > Although Compass will handle it, I would not put each survey into a separate> file. That clutters up the disk and makes it hard to do certain things.> > III. GEO-REFERENCING. You can only tie a cave to Longitude/Latitude or UTM> coordinates through a survey project.> > > I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a> > separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at> > each one individually. I have just wound up going back to> > one survey file so I can look at the entire cave.> > Generally, you don't want to put a single weekend's worth of data in a> separate file. In general, you want to keep between 20 and 50 miles of cave> in a single file. > > > I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole> > project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just> > clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have.> > When you first start out with a new cave, you probably don't want to create> a project. You just want an empty survey file to add data to. So, to start> with, you would select the "File -> Create New Survey File." Then you would> keep adding data to that same file until it reaches about 20 to 50 miles of> cave.> > You will only need a Project at the point that you are ready to: 1)> Geo-reference, 2) breakup the cave or 3) group several caves together into a> system. At that point you use the Wizard:> > The Wizard will ask you which files you want in the project. You just keep> adding files until you have everything you need. Even after you have created> a project, you can still work the individual files by themselves. You only> need the project when you want to view all the files together.> > The only really tricky part comes in when you group together separate caves> that have duplicate station names. That's where the "linking" process comes> in. I won't describe it right now because you probably won't be needing it> for a while and it is confusing.> > Let me know if you have more questions.> > Larry> > ________________________________________> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]> On Behalf Of Ken Bailey> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:53 AM> To: [email protected]> Subject: [compass-users] Project Files> > > This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about> project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all> the different surveys to draw as one cave. I have tried putting the survey> from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just> looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one> survey file so I can look at the entire cave. I have played with the wizard> but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I> really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If> someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the> project manager. I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that> day but for now those records are in the field notes.> Thanks> Ken>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:23:10 -0700 From: "Larry Fish" Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Project Files Hi Ken, Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I guess what is confusing me then is that I have a place to enter the survey team and the particulars only once on a survey and the team changes from trip to trip so that information stays in my notes while the original compass survey entry just gets further out of date. Most people handle this situation by splitting the survey up into multiple "sub-surveys." Let's say you have a survey called the "A" survey. On the first day working in the cave, you survey stations "A1" through "A10". A week later the same survey team comes in and adds "A11" through "A25". Finally, a year later, a totally new team comes in surveys "A26" through "A30". In Compass you would enter these three segments as separate surveys. To differentiate between three segments with the same letter designation, you would add a "Plus Sign" to the survey name that you enter in the header. For example: 1st Survey = Name: "A" Shots: A1 - A10 2nd Survey = Name: "A+" Shots: A11 - A25 3rd Survey = Name: "A++" Shots: A26 - A30 This system allows you to split up a survey whenever something changes about the survey. That insures that you won't lose any Team or Date Data. You don't have to use the Plus Sign for this. Virtually any symbol will do. For example, some people use a single quote to designate a sub-survey: Name: A' Name: A'' Name: A''' Now remember all three surveys or "sub-surveys" would normally go in the same file, not in different files. In fact, if you have a "B", "C" or "D" survey with their own "sub-surveys," all of it would also go in the same file. Thanks for the software and the explanation. I am having people in my grotto ask me to teach them how to use the software and I am far from an expert so I will probably have more dumb questions in the future but I promise only after I have read the help. Actually the "dumb" questions are the BEST questions. They are usually questions that other people have but are too shy to ask. They also help clarify where the software and documentation needs work. As a programmer, I know exactly how everything works, so I'm blind to the weaknesses of the software. Let me know if you have any questions. Larry
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:25:33 -0500 From: "Ken Bailey" Subject: RE: [compass-users] Re: Project Files Thanks Paul. I look forward to seeing how the file is set up. "Paul De Bie" 12/30/2010 12:53 PM Hi Ken, Everything is very well explained in the Help. The Help in Compass is outstanding. But to make a few things clear. A DAT file is not a survey. A DAT files is a collection of surveys (sessions or trips, call it as you like). For each survey you can enter date, team, some remarks, units, magnetic deviation etc. A DAT file is most of the time 1 cave. If you have different caves in the same area, you might want to group them together so you can plot them together or export them to Google Earth or so. That's where you will need a Project (MAK file). You can then fix the entrance (or better: a particular shot) by entering their UTM coordinates in a so called "DAT File Node". I will send you a project (MAK) that consists out of a handful of caves (so multiple DAT files) and in each DAT file there is a bunch of surveys. Play with it and things will become clear I hope. Here's a screenprint of the project: The first DAT file has got another icon (the purple book) because it is a file node. If you doubleclick it, you will open a dialog in which you will see the fixed UTM coordinates for the cave entrances. HTH Paul De Bie http://www.scavalon.be http://scavalon.blogspot.com From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Bailey Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] Re: Project Files Larry, Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I guess what is confusing me then is that I have a place to enter the survey team and the particulars only once on a survey and the team changes from trip to trip so that information stays in my notes while the original compass survey entry just gets further out of date. I guess what I had envisioned was the project allowing me to enter each trip's team information after each trip and keeping stats on how much help and where in the cave people gave their time. Maybe there is a way to do what I am wanting and I just can't find it. I have only gotten serious about using the software this summer so there is a lot I don't know and I can't seem to find it in the help. What I had done is break up every survey trip into a multiple surveys so I could enter the team data and then try to get a project to draw them together. I wound up having to put it all in one survey file to draw the cave which it looks like the way to do it. The cave I am working on is about 2.5 miles long so one file will be enough but I am having to keep a second file of who did what and when and how much. I have to say my field work has improved greatly with the software keeping more honest I am wanting to go back and redo some of my old work. Thanks for the software and the explanation. I am having people in my grotto ask me to teach them how to use the software and I am far from an expert so I will probably have more dumb questions in the future but I promise only after I have read the help. Ken "Tom" 12/29/2010 2:48 PM I have a project file for Bigfoot Cave and it is divided into about 6 surveys. The one survey won't open, it gives a "dat file too big". Bigfoot is about 16 miles long. --- In [email protected], "Larry Fish" wrote: Hi Ken, Thanks for your questions. There have already been some good answers. I will add a few more things. This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. Project files are a way organize a cave or a cave system. They don't actually contain any survey data. They only contain a list files that will be compiled together. You use them in two situations: I. CAVE SYSTEMS. Projects are use to organize multiple caves into a system. For example, we have a caving area here in Colorado called Williams Canyon. There are about 20 or 30 caves in and around the Canyon. With a project file, I can create a combined plot that includes all the caves in the canyon. I can also create a different project files that only parts of the canyon. For example, I have one that contains the caves on the East side the canyon and another that contains the caves on the West side. I probably have 10 different project files for Williams Canyon, each one groups a different combination of caves together. The important thing to understand is that each cave can be included more than one Project File. II. LARGE CAVES. When caves get beyond a certain size, it is awkward to have them in a single file. For example, Lechuguilla is large enough that it has been divided up into seven files, where each contains a different region of the cave. Lechuguilla has the "Entrance," "Near East," "Far East," "South," etc. The project file is then used to put all those pieces together. You don't need project files for small to medium caves. There is really no limit to the size of a DAT file, but most people start splitting the cave up into separate file when it reaches about 20 to 50 miles in length. Although Compass will handle it, I would not put each survey into a separate file. That clutters up the disk and makes it hard to do certain things. III. GEO-REFERENCING. You can only tie a cave to Longitude/Latitude or UTM coordinates through a survey project. I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave. Generally, you don't want to put a single weekend's worth of data in a separate file. In general, you want to keep between 20 and 50 miles of cave in a single file. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. When you first start out with a new cave, you probably don't want to create a project. You just want an empty survey file to add data to. So, to start with, you would select the "File - Create New Survey File." Then you would keep adding data to that same file until it reaches about 20 to 50 miles of cave. You will only need a Project at the point that you are ready to: 1) Geo-reference, 2) breakup the cave or 3) group several caves together into a system. At that point you use the Wizard: The Wizard will ask you which files you want in the project. You just keep adding files until you have everything you need. Even after you have created a project, you can still work the individual files by themselves. You only need the project when you want to view all the files together. The only really tricky part comes in when you group together separate caves that have duplicate station names. That's where the "linking" process comes in. I won't describe it right now because you probably won't be needing it for a while and it is confusing. Let me know if you have more questions. Larry ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Bailey Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [compass-users] Project Files This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all the different surveys to draw as one cave. I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one survey file so I can look at the entire cave. I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the project manager. I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that day but for now those records are in the field notes. Thanks Ken ������t Thanks Paul. I look forward to seeing how the file is set up.>>> "Paul De Bie" <[email protected]> 12/30/2010 12:53 PM >>> Hi Ken, Everything is very well explained in the Help. The Help in Compass is outstanding. But to make a few things clear. A DAT file is not a survey. A DAT files is a collection of surveys (sessions or trips, call it as you like). For each survey you can enter date, team, some remarks, units, magnetic deviation etc. A DAT file is most of the time 1 cave. If you have different caves in the same area, you might want to group them together so you can plot them together or export them to Google Earth or so. That's where you will need a Project (MAK file). You can then fix the entrance (or better: a particular shot) by entering their UTM coordinates in a so called "DAT File Node". I will send you a project (MAK) that consists out of a handful of caves (so multiple DAT files) and in each DAT file there is a bunch of surveys. Play with it and things will become clear I hope. Here's a screenprint of the project: The first DAT file has got another icon (the purple book) because it is a file node. If you doubleclick it, you will open a dialog in which you will see the fixed UTM coordinates for the cave entrances. HTH Paul De Biehttp://www.scavalon.behttp://scavalon.blogspot.com From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken BaileySent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:32 PMTo: [email protected]: [compass-users] Re: Project Files Larry, Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I guess what is confusing me then is that I have a place to enter the survey team and the particulars only once on a survey and the team changes from trip to trip so that information stays in my notes while the original compass survey entry just gets further out of date. I guess what I had envisioned was the project allowing me to enter each trip's team information after each trip and keeping stats on how much help and where in the cave people gave their time. Maybe there is a way to do what I am wanting and I just can't find it. I have only gotten serious about using the software this summer so there is a lot I don't know and I can't seem to find it in the help. What I had done is break up every survey trip into a multiple surveys so I could enter the team data and then try to get a project to draw them together. I wound up having to put it all in one survey file to draw the cave which it looks like the way to do it. The cave I am working on is about 2.5 miles long so one file will be enough but I am having to keep a second file of who did what and when and how much. I have to say my field work has improved greatly with the software keeping more honest I am wanting to go back and redo some of my old work. Thanks for the software and the explanation. I am having people in my grotto ask me to teach them how to use the software and I am far from an expert so I will probably have more dumb questions in the future but I promise only after I have read the help. Ken>>> "Tom" <[email protected]> 12/29/2010 2:48 PM >>> I have a project file for Bigfoot Cave and it is divided into about 6 surveys. The one survey won't open, it gives a "dat file too big". Bigfoot is about 16 miles long.--- In [email protected], "Larry Fish" <lfish@...> wrote:>> Hi Ken,> > Thanks for your questions. There have already been some good answers. I will> add a few more things.> > This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read> > the help about project files but I don't understand why I> > should use them or how to get all the different surveys to> > draw as one cave.> > Project files are a way organize a cave or a cave system. They don't> actually contain any survey data. They only contain a list files that will> be compiled together. You use them in two situations:> > I. CAVE SYSTEMS. Projects are use to organize multiple caves into a system.> For example, we have a caving area here in Colorado called Williams Canyon.> There are about 20 or 30 caves in and around the Canyon. With a project> file, I can create a combined plot that includes all the caves in the> canyon. I can also create a different project files that only parts of the> canyon. For example, I have one that contains the caves on the East side the> canyon and another that contains the caves on the West side. I probably have> 10 different project files for Williams Canyon, each one groups a different> combination of caves together. The important thing to understand is that> each cave can be included more than one Project File. > > II. LARGE CAVES. When caves get beyond a certain size, it is awkward to have> them in a single file. For example, Lechuguilla is large enough that it has> been divided up into seven files, where each contains a different region of> the cave. Lechuguilla has the "Entrance," "Near East," "Far East," "South,"> etc. The project file is then used to put all those pieces together. > > You don't need project files for small to medium caves. There is really no> limit to the size of a DAT file, but most people start splitting the cave up> into separate file when it reaches about 20 to 50 miles in length.> > Although Compass will handle it, I would not put each survey into a separate> file. That clutters up the disk and makes it hard to do certain things.> > III. GEO-REFERENCING. You can only tie a cave to Longitude/Latitude or UTM> coordinates through a survey project.> > > I have tried putting the survey from each weekend in as a> > separate file in a Project but I wind up just looking at> > each one individually. I have just wound up going back to> > one survey file so I can look at the entire cave.> > Generally, you don't want to put a single weekend's worth of data in a> separate file. In general, you want to keep between 20 and 50 miles of cave> in a single file. > > > I have played with the wizard but I don't know how the whole> > project is supposed to look at the end so I really am just> > clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have.> > When you first start out with a new cave, you probably don't want to create> a project. You just want an empty survey file to add data to. So, to start> with, you would select the "File -> Create New Survey File." Then you would> keep adding data to that same file until it reaches about 20 to 50 miles of> cave.> > You will only need a Project at the point that you are ready to: 1)> Geo-reference, 2) breakup the cave or 3) group several caves together into a> system. At that point you use the Wizard:> > The Wizard will ask you which files you want in the project. You just keep> adding files until you have everything you need. Even after you have created> a project, you can still work the individual files by themselves. You only> need the project when you want to view all the files together.> > The only really tricky part comes in when you group together separate caves> that have duplicate station names. That's where the "linking" process comes> in. I won't describe it right now because you probably won't be needing it> for a while and it is confusing.> > Let me know if you have more questions.> > Larry> > ________________________________________> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]> On Behalf Of Ken Bailey> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:53 AM> To: [email protected]> Subject: [compass-users] Project Files> > > This may have been asked but I can't find it. I have read the help about> project files but I don't understand why I should use them or how to get all> the different surveys to draw as one cave. I have tried putting the survey> from each weekend in as a separate file in a Project but I wind up just> looking at each one individually. I have just wound up going back to one> survey file so I can look at the entire cave. I have played with the wizard> but I don't know how the whole project is supposed to look at the end so I> really am just clicking and hoping and then not knowing what I have. If> someone could explain the big picture I would go back and try to use the> project manager. I like the idea that I can put the survey team in for that> day but for now those records are in the field notes.> Thanks> Ken>