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Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 11:55:14 -0800
Subject: Fake Shots and the 'C' Closure Exclusion
From: "David A. Riggs" 

Hi Larry,

I'm trying to fake a connection shot where no actual survey has been
performed, essentially trying to tie existing two stations together without
influencing their existing location.

The attached, simplified test file has three stations, two real shots, and
one fake shot. The fake shot creates a loop.

When I apply the 'C' closure exclusion flag to the fake shot, Compass
5.15.11.24.188 still creates the loop and applies error distribution to it
(which moves my real stations around). It does this whether I use a fake
shot length of 0.0 or some arbitrary number.

If I apply the 'X' total exclusion flag, Compass correctly does not create
a loop, and the existing stations remain where they should.

Am I misunderstanding the 'C' flag, or should applying it to this fake shot
keep Compass from moving my other stations? Is there any other way I can
show connection between these two stations without surveying the shot?

Thanks!

- DR

PS: My real use case is obviously a more complicated project than this test
case. When I process my real data, the fake shots produce "uncloseable
loop" errors during closure, probably because the fake shots result in
several small, connected loops that depend on each other. I can send this
.DAT privately if you wish.

David A. Riggs 

Hi Larry,I'm trying to fake a connection shot where no actual survey has been performed, essentially trying to tie existing two stations together without influencing their existing location.The attached, simplified test file has three stations, two real shots, and one fake shot. The fake shot creates a loop.When I apply the 'C' closure exclusion flag to the fake shot, Compass 5.15.11.24.188 still creates the loop and applies error distribution to it (which moves my real stations around). It does this whether I use a fake shot length of 0.0 or some arbitrary number. If I apply the 'X' total exclusion flag, Compass correctly does not create a loop, and the existing stations remain where they should. Am I misunderstanding the 'C' flag, or should applying it to this fake shot keep Compass from moving my other stations? Is there any other way I can show connection between these two stations without surveying the shot?Thanks!- DRPS: My real use case is obviously a more complicated project than this test case. When I process my real data, the fake shots produce "uncloseable loop" errors during closure, probably because the fake shots result in several small, connected loops that depend on each other. I can send this .DAT privately if you wish.-- David A. Riggs <[email protected]>

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Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:39:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Fake Shots and the 'C' Closure Exclusion [1 Attachment]
From: Luc Le Blanc 

David,

According to the Flags section at the end of this file format doc, your
shot marked with a C flag should indeed be excluded from loop closure and
thus not move other stations:

http://www.fountainware.com/compass/Documents/FileFormats/SurveyDataFormat.htm

That's exactly how I translated it to/from Auriga ;)

Luc Le Blanc
http://www.speleo.qc.ca/Auriga

2016-01-14 14:55 GMT-05:00 'David A. Riggs' [email protected]
[compass-users] :

 [Attachment(s)  from David A. Riggs
 included below]

 Hi Larry,

 I'm trying to fake a connection shot where no actual survey has been
 performed, essentially trying to tie existing two stations together without
 influencing their existing location.

 The attached, simplified test file has three stations, two real shots, and
 one fake shot. The fake shot creates a loop.

 When I apply the 'C' closure exclusion flag to the fake shot, Compass
 5.15.11.24.188 still creates the loop and applies error distribution to it
 (which moves my real stations around). It does this whether I use a fake
 shot length of 0.0 or some arbitrary number.

 If I apply the 'X' total exclusion flag, Compass correctly does not create
 a loop, and the existing stations remain where they should.

 Am I misunderstanding the 'C' flag, or should applying it to this fake
 shot keep Compass from moving my other stations? Is there any other way I
 can show connection between these two stations without surveying the shot?

 Thanks!

 - DR

 PS: My real use case is obviously a more complicated project than this
 test case. When I process my real data, the fake shots produce "uncloseable
 loop" errors during closure, probably because the fake shots result in
 several small, connected loops that depend on each other. I can send this
 .DAT privately if you wish.

 --
 David A. Riggs 

David,According to the Flags section at the end of this file format doc, your shot marked with a C flag should indeed be excluded from loop closure and thus not move other stations:http://www.fountainware.com/compass/Documents/FileFormats/SurveyDataFormat.htmThat's exactly how I translated it to/from Auriga ;)-- Luc Le Blanchttp://www.speleo.qc.ca/Auriga2016-01-14 14:55 GMT-05:00 'David A. Riggs' [email protected] [compass-users] <[email protected]>:

[Attachment(s) from David A. Riggs included below]

Hi Larry,I'm trying to fake a connection shot where no actual survey has been performed, essentially trying to tie existing two stations together without influencing their existing location.The attached, simplified test file has three stations, two real shots, and one fake shot. The fake shot creates a loop.When I apply the 'C' closure exclusion flag to the fake shot, Compass 5.15.11.24.188 still creates the loop and applies error distribution to it (which moves my real stations around). It does this whether I use a fake shot length of 0.0 or some arbitrary number. If I apply the 'X' total exclusion flag, Compass correctly does not create a loop, and the existing stations remain where they should. Am I misunderstanding the 'C' flag, or should applying it to this fake shot keep Compass from moving my other stations? Is there any other way I can show connection between these two stations without surveying the shot?Thanks!- DRPS: My real use case is obviously a more complicated project than this test case. When I process my real data, the fake shots produce "uncloseable loop" errors during closure, probably because the fake shots result in several small, connected loops that depend on each other. I can send this .DAT privately if you wish.-- David A. Riggs <[email protected]>

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Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:16:50 -0700
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Fake Shots and the 'C' Closure Exclusion [1 Attachment]
From: "Larry" 

Hi David,

I think you are misunderstanding what the "C-flag" is used for. The C-flag
excludes a shot from being adjusted in the loop closure process. A shot with
the C-flag set is generally considered to be a high-accuracy shot that you
don't want Compass to make any changes to. When you use the C-flag, Compass
makes no changes to it of any kind.

In the case of the "Test.dat" file you sent, Compass is behaving exactly the
way it is supposed to. Because shot is marked with the C-flag, Compass makes
no changes to the shot and passes it through to be processed as normal.
Since the shot has values of 0,0,0, for bearing, length and inclination, you
are saying that A2 and A3 are in the same place. Since you've applied the
C-flag, Compass will guarantee that A2 and A3 are the same place and will
adjust the other two shots to force them to conform. If the 0,0,0 value of
shot A2-A3 represents an error, then applying the C-flag prevents Compass
from adjusting the error and minimizing its effects. 

The reason you are getting the "uncloseable loop" error is that Compass
doesn't have any shots adjust because all the available shots have been
excluded for one reason or another.  In addition to the C-Flag, shots can be
excluded by Compass itself when it closes adjacent loops. If two loops share
the same shot, the first loop to be closed locks down all the shots,
excluding them from further adjustment by adjacent loops. If the combination
of these two exclusions leaves a loop with no shots to adjust, you will get
this error.

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish with the fake shots,
but here are some thoughts:

1. If you are trying to eliminate the error caused by the 0,0,0 measurement
in shot A2-A3, then are several things you can do. In a small loop like
your example, small changes make a huge difference and exaggerate the
problem. In that situation, you could solve the problem by using the "C"
flag on the other two shots and removing the flag from A2-A3. That way,
A2-A3 will get adjusted and the other two shots will be left alone.

In larger loops, especially when there are multiple overlapping loops, the
best solution is to not use the "C" flag at all and just let Compass sort
things out. There are several reasons for this:

When Compass adjusts a loop, it distributes the errors over all the shots in
the loop and all the shots in the interconnecting, nearby loops. This
diminishes the effect of any error. For example, Compass distributes 25%
error in on shot over the course a 30 neighboring shots, the per/shot error
is reduced to 0.8%. In practice it can be even lower than this because of
other aspects of the way loops are adjusted.

2. If you really want to remove the shot entirely from the loop, the best
solution is to break the loop you can use the "X" flag.

3. I've thought about adding a flag that would be the opposite of the "C"
flag. In other words, Compass would only adjust those shots that had the new
flag set. In this case, it would only adjust shot A2-A3, since it assumed
to have the error. Unfortunately, this leads to all kinds of problems. For
example, you have to examine all the shots in a loop before you know how to
adjust it. If none of the shot have the new flag, then all the shots would
be adjusted normally. On the other hand, if even one shot has the new flag
set, then all the other shot won't be adjusted and only the flagged shot
would be adjusted.

4. I've spent a lot of time thinking about how to solve this type of
problem. I'm leaning toward allowing individual shots have a "weight" that
would tell the loop closer how much you trust the shot. The higher the
weight, the more the loop closer would trust the shot. Before this can
happen, I need to implement the redesign the Compass file format, something
I've been working on for several years.

Let me know if you have any more thoughts or questions.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:55 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Fake Shots and the 'C' Closure Exclusion [1
Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from David A. Riggs included below] 

Hi Larry,

I'm trying to fake a connection shot where no actual survey has been
performed, essentially trying to tie existing two stations together without
influencing their existing location.

The attached, simplified test file has three stations, two real shots, and
one fake shot. The fake shot creates a loop.

When I apply the 'C' closure exclusion flag to the fake shot, Compass
5.15.11.24.188 still creates the loop and applies error distribution to it
(which moves my real stations around). It does this whether I use a fake
shot length of 0.0 or some arbitrary number. 

If I apply the 'X' total exclusion flag, Compass correctly does not create a
loop, and the existing stations remain where they should. 

Am I misunderstanding the 'C' flag, or should applying it to this fake shot
keep Compass from moving my other stations? Is there any other way I can
show connection between these two stations without surveying the shot?

Thanks!

- DR

PS: My real use case is obviously a more complicated project than this test
case. When I process my real data, the fake shots produce "uncloseable loop"
errors during closure, probably because the fake shots result in several
small, connected loops that depend on each other. I can send this .DAT
privately if you wish.

David A. Riggs 

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Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:48:53 -0800
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Fake Shots and the 'C' Closure Exclusion
From: "David A. Riggs" 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 4:16 PM, 'Larry' [email protected]
[compass-users]  wrote:

 I think you are misunderstanding what the "C-flag�?? is used for. The C-flag
 excludes a shot from being adjusted in the loop closure process. A shot
 with the C-flag set is generally considered to be a high-accuracy shot that
 you don't want Compass to make any changes to. When you use the C-flag,
 Compass makes no changes to it of any kind.

Indeed, I interpreted the 'C' flag in exactly the opposite way, which
explains why Compass treated it so differently than I expected.

I was looking for a way to tell Compass "don't let this low-accuracy shot
affect loop closure", yet the 'C' flag actually means "don't apply loop
closure to this high-accuracy shot". An example of an appropriate use for
the 'C' flag would be a Total Station survey down the historic "sidewalk"
through Mammoth Cave.

 I�?Tm not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish with the fake
 shots, but here are some thoughts:

Adding the 'C' flag to all the other shots doesn't make sense, because they
may rely on legitimate loop closure for their own positioning.

Using the 'X' flag defeats my purpose, because then the fake shot is no
longer plotted (not even as a "hidden" shot).

 4. I�?Tve spent a lot of time thinking about how to solve this type of
 problem. I�?Tm leaning toward allowing individual shots have a �?oweight�?? that
 would tell the loop closer how much you trust the shot. The higher the
 weight, the more the loop closer would trust the shot.

I think that, ultimately, this is what I'm after: a way to say "this shot
should have zero/minimal weight when calculating loop closure". I also
recognize that this would have profound impact on the entire loop closure
algorithm and is not an easy thing to add.

Survex has an '*SD' command which configured the standard deviation for a
given measurement, but I don't know the details of how it influences its
loop closure algorithm. I do know that, as a user, thinking about the
standard deviation of an instrument isn't the most intuitive way to define
my "trust" in an instrument!

The takeaway is that I was misinterpreting the use of the 'C' flag; thank
you for your clarification! I'm (once again) doing some nonstandard things
with Compass, so please don't give any weight to my fake shot use case when
it comes to Compass development!

As always, thanks for your prompt and thorough help!

Thanks also to Luc for reminding me to "read the fine manual". :-)

- DR

David A. Riggs 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 4:16 PM, 'Larry' [email protected] [compass-users] <[email protected]> wrote:I think you are misunderstanding what the "C-flag�??
is used for. The C-flag excludes a shot from being adjusted in the loop closure
process. A shot with the C-flag set is generally considered to be a
high-accuracy shot that you don't want Compass to make any changes to. When you
use the C-flag, Compass makes no changes to it of any kind.Indeed, I interpreted the 'C' flag in exactly the opposite way, which explains why Compass treated it so differently than I expected.I was looking for a way to tell Compass "don't let this low-accuracy shot affect loop closure", yet the 'C' flag actually means "don't apply loop closure to this high-accuracy shot". An example of an appropriate use for the 'C' flag would be a Total Station survey down the historic "sidewalk" through Mammoth Cave.A�

I�?Tm not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish
with the fake shots, but here are some thoughts:Adding the 'C' flag to all the other shots doesn't make sense, because they may rely on legitimate loop closure for their own positioning.Using the 'X' flag defeats my purpose, because then the fake shot is no longer plotted (not even as a "hidden" shot).A�4. I�?Tve spent a lot of time thinking about how to
solve this type of problem. I�?Tm leaning toward allowing individual shots
have a �?oweight�?? that would tell the loop closer how much you trust
the shot. The higher the weight, the more the loop closer would trust the shot. I think that, ultimately, this is what I'm after: a way to say "this shot should have zero/minimal weight when calculating loop closure". I also recognize that this would have profound impact on the entire loop closure algorithm and is not an easy thing to add.Survex has an '*SD' command which configured the standard deviation for a given measurement, but I don't know the details of how it influences its loop closure algorithm. I do know that, as a user, thinking about the standard deviation of an instrument isn't the most intuitive way to define my "trust" in an instrument!The takeaway is that I was misinterpreting the use of the 'C' flag; thank you for your clarification! I'm (once again) doing some nonstandard things with Compass, so please don't give any weight to my fake shot use case when it comes to Compass development!As always, thanks for your prompt and thorough help!Thanks also to Luc for reminding me to "read the fine manual". :-)- DR-- David A. Riggs <[email protected]>

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Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 08:07:14 +0100
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Fake Shots and the 'C' Closure Exclusion
From: Martin Sluka 

 15. 1. 2016 v 1:48, 'David A. Riggs' [email protected] [compass-users] :
 
 Survex has an '*SD' command which configured the standard deviation for a given measurement, but I don't know the details of how it influences its loop closure algorithm. I do know that, as a user, thinking about the standard deviation of an instrument isn't the most intuitive way to define my "trust" in an instrument!

hmmm, imagine cave system, which i surveyed many ten years with very different instruments and workflows. Not situation in NSS in any case, of course. SD is the best way, how to manage such data.

Martin

15. 1. 2016 v 1:48, 'David A. Riggs' [email protected] [compass-users] <[email protected]>:Survex has an '*SD' command which configured the standard deviation for a given measurement, but I don't know the details of how it influences its loop closure algorithm. I do know that, as a user, thinking about the standard deviation of an instrument isn't the most intuitive way to define my "trust" in an instrument!hmmm, imagine cave system, which i surveyed many ten years with very different instruments and workflows. Not situation in NSS in any case, of course. SD is the best way, how to manage such data.Martin

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Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 19:55:34 +0000 (UTC)
Content-Length: 1683
Subject: shape file exports
From: Steve Lewis and/or Rachel Myron 

Hello,A� A�We are trying to export shape files of a Hawaiian cave to GIS. A�The cave map seems to be exporting properly, but we are not getting a correct location, but rather just a set of 0's for the baseline location. A�We've gotten our UTM coordinates for entrances into compass (correctly we think) and assumed that these would carry over---but they aren't. A�I'm sure we are forgetting something simple, but aren't coming up with it. A�Can anyone help?THanksSteve Lewis

Hello,   We are trying to export shape files of a Hawaiian cave to GIS.  The cave map seems to be exporting properly, but we are not getting a correct location, but rather just a set of 0's for the baseline location.  We've gotten our UTM coordinates for entrances into compass (correctly we think) and assumed that these would carry over---but they aren't.  I'm sure we are forgetting something simple, but aren't coming up with it.  Can anyone help?THanksSteve Lewis

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Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 13:16:41 -0700
Subject: RE: [compass-users] shape file exports
From: "Larry" 

Hi Steve,

You need to make sure that the cave passages are actually tied to a fixed
location. There are several ways that Compass uses fixed positions, but not
all of them actually tie the passages to a fixed geographic location. I
dealt with a similar problem for KML files a few months ago. Here was my
response then:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/compass-users/conversations/messages/510

The information there applies to Shape file exports in exactly the same way
that it applies to KML files.

There are also issues with ESRI software that you need to be aware of.
Bernie Szukalski, (an ESRI employee,) has information on his web page.

http://www.bszukalski.com/ckmap/index.html

You should look at all the links under "ArcGIS Techniques" on the left. 

Let me know if those suggestions solve your problem.

Larry Fish

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: [compass-users] shape file exports

Hello,

   We are trying to export shape files of a Hawaiian cave to GIS.  The cave
map seems to be exporting properly, but we are not getting a correct
location, but rather just a set of 0's for the baseline location.  We've
gotten our UTM coordinates for entrances into compass (correctly we think)
and assumed that these would carry over---but they aren't.  I'm sure we are
forgetting something simple, but aren't coming up with it.  Can anyone help?

THanks

Steve Lewis

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }

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Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 18:05:11 +0000 (UTC)
Content-Length: 28983
Subject: Re: [compass-users] shape file exports
From: Steve Lewis and/or Rachel Myron 

Thanks Larry,A� A� A� We got the maps to show up finally---but are still having some problems with linking to GIS and getting all entrances to tie to the cave map properly. A�Hoping that these links and the expertise of our GIS guy can figure this out all the way!Cheers,Steve Lewis

      From: "'Larry' [email protected] [compass-users]" 
 To: [email protected] 
 Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 11:16 AM
 Subject: RE: [compass-users] shape file exports
   
A�   Hi Steve, You need to make sure that the cave passages are actuallytied to a fixed location. There are several ways that Compass uses fixed positions,but not all of them actually tie the passages to a fixed geographic location. Idealt with a similar problem for KML files a few months ago. Here was myresponse then: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/compass-users/conversations/messages/510 The information there applies to Shape file exports inexactly the same way that it applies to KML files. There are also issues with ESRI software that you need to beaware of. Bernie Szukalski, (an ESRI employee,) has information on his webpage. http://www.bszukalski.com/ckmap/index.html You should look at all the links under �?oArcGISTechniques�?? on the left.  Let me know if those suggestions solve your problem. Larry Fish  A�  A� From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected] ] 
Sent: Friday, February 19, 201612:56 PM
Subject: [compass-users] shapefile exports  A� A�  Hello, A�A�We are trying to export shape files of a Hawaiian cave to GIS. A�Thecave map seems to be exporting properly, but we are not getting a correctlocation, but rather just a set of 0's for the baseline location. A�We've gottenour UTM coordinates for entrances into compass (correctly we think) and assumedthat these would carry over---but they aren't. A�I'm sure we are forgettingsomething simple, but aren't coming up with it. A�Can anyone help? THanks Steve Lewis   #yiv2011738292 #yiv2011738292 -- #yiv2011738292ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv2011738292 #yiv2011738292ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv2011738292 #yiv2011738292ygrp-mkp #yiv2011738292hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv2011738292 #yiv2011738292ygrp-mkp #yiv2011738292ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv2011738292 #yiv2011738292ygrp-mkp .yiv2011738292ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv2011738292 #yiv2011738292ygrp-mkp .yiv2011738292ad p {margin:0;}#yiv2011738292 #yiv2011738292ygrp-mkp .yiv2011738292ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2011738292 #yiv2011738292ygrp-sponsor #yiv2011738292ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv2011738292 #yiv2011738292ygrp-sponsor #yiv2011738292ygrp-lc #yiv2011738292hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv2011738292 #yiv2011738292ygrp-sponsor #yiv2011738292ygrp-lc .yiv2011738292ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 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Thanks Larry,      We got the maps to show up finally---but are still having some problems with linking to GIS and getting all entrances to tie to the cave map properly.  Hoping that these links and the expertise of our GIS guy can figure this out all the way!Cheers,Steve Lewis       From: "'Larry' [email protected] [compass-users]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected]  Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 11:16 AM Subject: RE: [compass-users] shape file exports   
 

Hi Steve, 

You need to make sure that the cave passages are actually
tied to a fixed location. There are several ways that Compass uses fixed positions,
but not all of them actually tie the passages to a fixed geographic location. I
dealt with a similar problem for KML files a few months ago. Here was my
response then: 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/compass-users/conversations/messages/510 

The information there applies to Shape file exports in
exactly the same way that it applies to KML files. 

There are also issues with ESRI software that you need to be
aware of. Bernie Szukalski, (an ESRI employee,) has information on his web
page. 

http://www.bszukalski.com/ckmap/index.html 

You should look at all the links under �?oArcGIS
Techniques�?? on the left.  

Let me know if those suggestions solve your problem. 

Larry Fish 

  
  
From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected] ] 
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016
12:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [compass-users] shape
file exports 

   

   

Hello, 

 
 We are trying to export shape files of a Hawaiian cave to GIS.  The
cave map seems to be exporting properly, but we are not getting a correct
location, but rather just a set of 0's for the baseline location.  We've gotten
our UTM coordinates for entrances into compass (correctly we think) and assumed
that these would carry over---but they aren't.  I'm sure we are forgetting
something simple, but aren't coming up with it.  Can anyone help? 

THanks 

Steve Lewis 
    
    
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Authentication-Results: mta1004.groups.mail.ne1.yahoo.com  from=yahoo.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig);  from=yahoo.com; dkim=pass (ok)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 19:50:18 +0000 (UTC)
Content-Length: 31197
Subject: Re: [compass-users] shape file exports
From: Tom 

Since the group email references my question, I may be able to help with the GIS part. 
I use QGIS, and know it pretty well.
let me know if you want help with it.Tom 
RL23455FE

      From: "Steve Lewis and/or Rachel Myron [email protected] [compass-users]" 
 To: "[email protected]"  
 Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2016 10:05 AM
 Subject: Re: [compass-users] shape file exports

Thanks Larry,A� A� A� We got the maps to show up finally---but are still having some problems with linking to GIS and getting all entrances to tie to the cave map properly. A�Hoping that these links and the expertise of our GIS guy can figure this out all the way!Cheers,Steve Lewis

      From: "'Larry' [email protected] [compass-users]" 
 To: [email protected] 
 Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 11:16 AM
 Subject: RE: [compass-users] shape file exports
   
A�   Hi Steve, You need to make sure that the cave passages are actuallytied to a fixed location. There are several ways that Compass uses fixed positions,but not all of them actually tie the passages to a fixed geographic location. Idealt with a similar problem for KML files a few months ago. Here was myresponse then: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/compass-users/conversations/messages/510 The information there applies to Shape file exports inexactly the same way that it applies to KML files. There are also issues with ESRI software that you need to beaware of. Bernie Szukalski, (an ESRI employee,) has information on his webpage. http://www.bszukalski.com/ckmap/index.html You should look at all the links under �?oArcGISTechniques�?? on the left.  Let me know if those suggestions solve your problem. Larry Fish  A�  A� From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected] ] 
Sent: Friday, February 19, 201612:56 PM
Subject: [compass-users] shapefile exports  A� A�  Hello, A�A�We are trying to export shape files of a Hawaiian cave to GIS. A�Thecave map seems to be exporting properly, but we are not getting a correctlocation, but rather just a set of 0's for the baseline location. A�We've gottenour UTM coordinates for entrances into compass (correctly we think) and assumedthat these would carry over---but they aren't. A�I'm sure we are forgettingsomething simple, but aren't coming up with it. A�Can anyone help? THanks Steve Lewis   #yiv9970180286 -- #yiv9970180286ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv9970180286 #yiv9970180286ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv9970180286 #yiv9970180286ygrp-mkp #yiv9970180286hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv9970180286 #yiv9970180286ygrp-mkp #yiv9970180286ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9970180286 #yiv9970180286ygrp-mkp .yiv9970180286ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9970180286 #yiv9970180286ygrp-mkp .yiv9970180286ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9970180286 #yiv9970180286ygrp-mkp .yiv9970180286ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9970180286 #yiv9970180286ygrp-sponsor #yiv9970180286ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv9970180286 #yiv9970180286ygrp-sponsor #yiv9970180286ygrp-lc #yiv9970180286hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv9970180286 #yiv9970180286ygrp-sponsor #yiv9970180286ygrp-lc .yiv9970180286ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 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Since the group email references my question, I may be able to help with the GIS part. I use QGIS, and know it pretty well.let me know if you want help with it.Tom RL23455FE       From: "Steve Lewis and/or Rachel Myron [email protected] [compass-users]" <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>  Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2016 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [compass-users] shape file exports   

Authentication-Results: mta1006.groups.mail.ne1.yahoo.com  from=jonjasper.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig);  from=jonjasper.com; dkim=neutral (no sig)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 23:41:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [compass-users] shape file exports
From: Jon Jasper 

You need to add a projection from the ArcCatalog.

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 11:50 AM -0800, "Tom [email protected] [compass-users]"  wrote:

A�

Since the group email references my question, I may be able to help with the GIS part. 
I use QGIS, and know it pretty well.
let me know if you want help with it.Tom 
RL23455FE

       From: "Steve Lewis and/or Rachel Myron [email protected] [compass-users]" 
 To: "[email protected]"  
 Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2016 10:05 AM
 Subject: Re: [compass-users] shape file exports

Thanks Larry,A� A� A� We got the maps to show up finally---but are still having some problems with linking to GIS and getting all entrances to tie to the cave map properly. A�Hoping that these links and the expertise of our GIS guy can figure this out all the way!Cheers,Steve Lewis

       From: "'Larry' [email protected] [compass-users]" 
 To: [email protected] 
 Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 11:16 AM
 Subject: RE: [compass-users] shape file exports

A�

Hi Steve, 

You need to make sure that the cave passages are actually
tied to a fixed location. There are several ways that Compass uses fixed positions,
but not all of them actually tie the passages to a fixed geographic location. I
dealt with a similar problem for KML files a few months ago. Here was my
response then: 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/compass-users/conversations/messages/510 

The information there applies to Shape file exports in
exactly the same way that it applies to KML files. 

There are also issues with ESRI software that you need to be
aware of. Bernie Szukalski, (an ESRI employee,) has information on his web
page. 

http://www.bszukalski.com/ckmap/index.html 

You should look at all the links under �?oArcGIS
Techniques�?? on the left.  

Let me know if those suggestions solve your problem. 

Larry Fish 

 A� 

 A� 

From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected] ] 

Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016
12:56 PM

Subject: [compass-users] shape
file exports 

 A� 

A�  

Hello, 

A�
A�We are trying to export shape files of a Hawaiian cave to GIS. A�The
cave map seems to be exporting properly, but we are not getting a correct
location, but rather just a set of 0's for the baseline location. A�We've gotten
our UTM coordinates for entrances into compass (correctly we think) and assumed
that these would carry over---but they aren't. A�I'm sure we are forgetting
something simple, but aren't coming up with it. A�Can anyone help? 

THanks 

Steve Lewis 

You need to add a projection from the ArcCatalog.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 11:50 AM -0800, "Tom [email protected] [compass-users]" <[email protected]> wrote:

 
      
      Since the group email references my question, I may be able to help with the GIS part. I use QGIS, and know it pretty well.let me know if you want help with it.Tom RL23455FE       From: "Steve Lewis and/or Rachel Myron [email protected] [compass-users]" <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>  Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2016 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [compass-users] shape file exports   

Thanks Larry,      We got the maps to show up finally---but are still having some problems with linking to GIS and getting all entrances to tie to the cave map properly.  Hoping that these links and the expertise of our GIS guy can figure this out all the way!Cheers,Steve Lewis       From: "'Larry' [email protected] [compass-users]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected]  Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 11:16 AM Subject: RE: [compass-users] shape file exports   
 

Hi Steve, 

You need to make sure that the cave passages are actually
tied to a fixed location. There are several ways that Compass uses fixed positions,
but not all of them actually tie the passages to a fixed geographic location. I
dealt with a similar problem for KML files a few months ago. Here was my
response then: 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/compass-users/conversations/messages/510 

The information there applies to Shape file exports in
exactly the same way that it applies to KML files. 

There are also issues with ESRI software that you need to be
aware of. Bernie Szukalski, (an ESRI employee,) has information on his web
page. 

http://www.bszukalski.com/ckmap/index.html 

You should look at all the links under �?oArcGIS
Techniques�?? on the left.  

Let me know if those suggestions solve your problem. 

Larry Fish 

  
  
From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected] ] 
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016
12:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [compass-users] shape
file exports 

   

   

Hello, 

 
 We are trying to export shape files of a Hawaiian cave to GIS.  The
cave map seems to be exporting properly, but we are not getting a correct
location, but rather just a set of 0's for the baseline location.  We've gotten
our UTM coordinates for entrances into compass (correctly we think) and assumed
that these would carry over---but they aren't.  I'm sure we are forgetting
something simple, but aren't coming up with it.  Can anyone help? 

THanks 

Steve Lewis 
    
    

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Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:13:50 -0400
Subject: two lengths - foresight and backsight
From: Tony Canike 

Well folks, it's come to it.

Survey teams with dueling DistoXs.  That is, one DistoX for the 
foresight, and a second DistoX for the backsight.

Or taking double front sights (not the best practice of course) with a 
DistoX.

These scenarios give us two lengths, a situation we didn't have with one 
tape and two sets of Suuntos.

Paul Winter (are you on here Paul?) and I were chatting about this 
today, and he pointed out that in these scenarios, it is often the 
lengths of the two shots that disagrees.  Perhaps this is because the 
instrument person moves the laser off the target by a very small angle 
and measures the distance to something behind the target.

What do you do?

1. What standard do you use when comparing the shots in field to check 
for blunders?

2. What do you write down in your book?  Both lengths?  The average?

3. If they are close, what do you enter into Compass?  The average?

4. Should we be able to enter both lengths into Compass?

Cheers,

Tony.

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Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 21:08:03 -0500
Subject: Bringing Compass plot into Illustrator
From: David Gerboth 

I am David Gerboth who is learning Illustrator to map caves. I have used 
Compass for years and bringing in plot files into Freehand. I am trying 
to figure out how to bring a Compass plot into a layer in Illustrator. 
Larry Fish informed me that I need to use the SVG importer and run a 
Compass PLT file through it and then I can bring that into Illustrator. 
I am getting mixed results from that. The best result I got was that it 
did import into Illustrator but as a new layer and it carried everything 
in the PLT file even though I tried to exclude the items I did not want 
imported. I think I am getting close to the result I want.

My question is how do I bring in only the survey shots of a PLT file and 
nothing else into a layer of a file I have set up in Illustrator?

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 03:55:45 -0600
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Bringing Compass plot into Illustrator
From: "Larry" 

Hi David,

Thanks for the question. The SVG Exporter was designed to work with the
"Round Tripping" concept developed by David McKenzie. This concept requires
that specific objects be exported to specific layers. As a result, the SVG
Exporter doesn't have the option to selectively export specific parts of the
cave data.

However, since each type of data is exported to a separate layer, it is easy
to delete the layers you don't need. Illustrator, Inkscape and other drawing
programs have a number of features that allow you to select layers and
delete them. For example, in Illustrator you can turn layers on and off,
which allows you to find out what each layer contains. Once you've
determined which layers you don't need, you can delete them. In Illustrator
you simply select the layer and then press the little button at the bottom
with the "trash can" icon.

The layer system used by the SVG Exporter is described in detail in the
Exporter's help file. It is under the section called "Concepts, Techniques
and Details," and in the subsection called "Layer Details."

The layer that contains the survey shot lines is called "w2d_Vectors." The
layer that contains the station markers is called "w2d_Markers" and both of
these layers should be under the layer "w2d_Survey."

Be aware that Illustrator will sometimes reorganize the layers and move
things around. This violates the "SVG" standard, which can cause problems
doing the round tripping. Since you just want get rid of those layers you
don't need, it should not be a problem.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2016 8:08 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Bringing Compass plot into Illustrator

I am David Gerboth who is learning Illustrator to map caves. I have used 
Compass for years and bringing in plot files into Freehand. I am trying 
to figure out how to bring a Compass plot into a layer in Illustrator. 
Larry Fish informed me that I need to use the SVG importer and run a 
Compass PLT file through it and then I can bring that into Illustrator. 
I am getting mixed results from that. The best result I got was that it 
did import into Illustrator but as a new layer and it carried everything 
in the PLT file even though I tried to exclude the items I did not want 
imported. I think I am getting close to the result I want.

My question is how do I bring in only the survey shots of a PLT file and 
nothing else into a layer of a file I have set up in Illustrator?

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }

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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 06:38:59 -0500
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Bringing Compass plot into Illustrator
From: David Gerboth 

Larry,
Thanks.
- Dave
On 10/4/2016 4:55 AM, 'Larry' [email protected] [compass-users] wrote:

 Hi David,

 Thanks for the question. The SVG Exporter was designed to work with 
 the "Round Tripping" concept developed by David McKenzie. This concept 
 requires that specific objects be exported to specific layers. As a 
 result, the SVG Exporter doesn't have the option to selectively export 
 specific parts of the cave data.

 However, since each type of data is exported to a separate layer, it 
 is easy to delete the layers you don't need. Illustrator, Inkscape and 
 other drawing programs have a number of features that allow you to 
 select layers and delete them. For example, in Illustrator you can 
 turn layers on and off, which allows you to find out what each layer 
 contains. Once you've determined which layers you don't need, you can 
 delete them. In Illustrator you simply select the layer and then press 
 the little button at the bottom with the "trash can" icon.

 The layer system used by the SVG Exporter is described in detail in 
 the Exporter's help file. It is under the section called "Concepts, 
 Techniques and Details," and in the subsection called "Layer Details."

 The layer that contains the survey shot lines is called "w2d_Vectors." 
 The layer that contains the station markers is called "w2d_Markers" 
 and both of these layers should be under the layer "w2d_Survey."

 Be aware that Illustrator will sometimes reorganize the layers and 
 move things around. This violates the "SVG" standard, which can cause 
 problems doing the round tripping. Since you just want get rid of 
 those layers you don't need, it should not be a problem.

 Larry

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 *From:*[email protected] 
 [mailto:[email protected]]
 *Sent:* Monday, October 03, 2016 8:08 PM
 *To:* Compass-Users
 *Subject:* [compass-users] Bringing Compass plot into Illustrator

 I am David Gerboth who is learning Illustrator to map caves. I have used
 Compass for years and bringing in plot files into Freehand. I am trying
 to figure out how to bring a Compass plot into a layer in Illustrator.
 Larry Fish informed me that I need to use the SVG importer and run a
 Compass PLT file through it and then I can bring that into Illustrator.
 I am getting mixed results from that. The best result I got was that it
 did import into Illustrator but as a new layer and it carried everything
 in the PLT file even though I tried to exclude the items I did not want
 imported. I think I am getting close to the result I want.

 My question is how do I bring in only the survey shots of a PLT file and
 nothing else into a layer of a file I have set up in Illustrator?
  
    Larry,
      Thanks.
      - Dave
      On 10/4/2016 4:55 AM, 'Larry' [email protected]
      [compass-users] wrote:
    
     �
            
              Hi
                    David,
              Thanks
                    for the question. The SVG Exporter was designed to
                    work with the "Round Tripping" concept developed by
                    David McKenzie.
                    This concept requires that specific objects be
                    exported to specific layers. As
                    a result, the SVG Exporter doesn't have the option
                    to selectively export
                    specific parts of the cave data.
              However,
                    since each type of data is exported to a separate
                    layer, it is easy to delete the layers you don't
                    need. Illustrator, Inkscape
                    and other drawing programs have a number of features
                    that allow you to select
                    layers and delete them. For example, in Illustrator
                    you can turn layers on and
                    off, which allows you to find out what each layer
                    contains. Once you've determined
                    which layers you don't need, you can delete them. In
                    Illustrator you simply
                    select the layer and then press the little button at
                    the bottom with the "trash
                    can" icon.
              The
                    layer system used by the SVG Exporter is described
                    in
                    detail in the Exporter's help file. It is under the
                    section called
                    "Concepts, Techniques and Details," and in the
                    subsection called
                    "Layer Details."
              The
                    layer that contains the survey shot lines is called
                    "w2d_Vectors." The layer that contains the station
                    markers is called
                    "w2d_Markers" and both of these layers should be
                    under the layer
                    "w2d_Survey."
              Be aware
                    that Illustrator will sometimes reorganize the
                    layers and move things around. This violates the
                    "SVG" standard,
                    which can cause problems doing the round tripping.
                    Since you just want get rid
                    of those layers you don't need, it should not be a
                    problem.
              Larry
              �
                    
                From: [email protected]
                      [mailto:[email protected]]
                      
                      Sent:
                      Monday, October 03, 2016
                      8:08 PM
                      To:
                      Compass-Users
                      Subject:
                      [compass-users] Bringing
                      Compass plot into Illustrator
              
              �
              � 
                  
                    I am David Gerboth
                          who is learning Illustrator to map
                          caves. I have used 
                          Compass for years and bringing in plot files
                          into Freehand. I am trying 
                          to figure out how to bring a Compass plot into
                          a layer in Illustrator. 
                          Larry Fish informed me that I need to use the
                          SVG importer and run a 
                          Compass PLT file through it and then I can
                          bring that into Illustrator. 
                          I am getting mixed results from that. The best
                          result I got was that it 
                          did import into Illustrator but as a new layer
                          and it carried everything 
                          in the PLT file even though I tried to exclude
                          the items I did not want 
                          imported. I think I am getting close to the
                          result I want.
                          
                          My question is how do I bring in only the
                          survey shots of a PLT file and 
                          nothing else into a layer of a file I have set
                          up in Illustrator?

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Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 01:07:34 -0500
Subject: Bringing SVG file into AI file
From: David Gerboth 

I am trying to bring a vector plot from Compass into an Illustrator file 
as a layer. I was able to create a SVG file from a Compass PLT file. The 
problem I am running into is that when I try to bring that SVG file into 
the AI file I have set up, it dumps into a separate tab and not into the 
existing layers of the AI file. I must be missing the correct steps for 
the SVG file to dump directly into where the other layers are.

I have been told that multiple layers are created from the SVG file and 
I know which layer I want that contains the vector plots.

Can anyone help me with this?

- Dave

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Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 06:48:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [compass-users] Bringing SVG file into AI file
From: Christian Chenier 

Hi Dave,

I've had the same behavior with DXF files and the solution is simple: 
one you have your line plot in that new document (new tab), simply 
select all, and copy and paste it into your existing AI document. If 
layers already exist with the same name, data will be merged into these 
layers; otherwise new layers will be created.

Hope this helps,
Chris

On 2016-11-04 02:07, David Gerboth [email protected] 
[compass-users] wrote:

 I am trying to bring a vector plot from Compass into an Illustrator file
 as a layer. I was able to create a SVG file from a Compass PLT file. The
 problem I am running into is that when I try to bring that SVG file into
 the AI file I have set up, it dumps into a separate tab and not into the
 existing layers of the AI file. I must be missing the correct steps for
 the SVG file to dump directly into where the other layers are.

 I have been told that multiple layers are created from the SVG file and
 I know which layer I want that contains the vector plots.

 Can anyone help me with this?

 - Dave

Christian ChAcnier
Gatineau (QuAcbec), Canada
  
    Hi Dave,
    I've had the same behavior with DXF files and the solution is
      simple: one you have your line plot in that new document (new
      tab), simply select all, and copy and paste it into your existing
      AI document. If layers already exist with the same name, data will
      be merged into these layers; otherwise new layers will be created.
    
    Hope this helps,
    Chris
    
    On 2016-11-04 02:07, David Gerboth
      [email protected] [compass-users] wrote:
    
     A�
          
            I am trying to bring a vector plot from Compass into an
              Illustrator file 
              as a layer. I was able to create a SVG file from a Compass
              PLT file. The 
              problem I am running into is that when I try to bring that
              SVG file into 
              the AI file I have set up, it dumps into a separate tab
              and not into the 
              existing layers of the AI file. I must be missing the
              correct steps for 
              the SVG file to dump directly into where the other layers
              are.
              
              I have been told that multiple layers are created from the
              SVG file and 
              I know which layer I want that contains the vector plots.
              
              Can anyone help me with this?
              
              - Dave
    
    -- 
Christian ChAcnier
Gatineau (QuAcbec), Canada

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Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 12:30:45 -0600
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Bringing SVG file into AI file
From: "Larry" 

I'm not much of an Illustrator guru, but here are some thoughts:

1. Once an SVG file has been read into Illustrator, it becomes an AI file.
That means what you have to do is merge the two AI files.

2. There is a lot of information on the internet suggesting how to do this.
For example, here is a long discussion about how to do this:

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/752144

Here is another:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Adobe-Illustrator-1027/2009/6/Merging-Illustrator
-files-Layers.htm

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 12:08 AM
Subject: [compass-users] Bringing SVG file into AI file

I am trying to bring a vector plot from Compass into an Illustrator file 
as a layer. I was able to create a SVG file from a Compass PLT file. The 
problem I am running into is that when I try to bring that SVG file into 
the AI file I have set up, it dumps into a separate tab and not into the 
existing layers of the AI file. I must be missing the correct steps for 
the SVG file to dump directly into where the other layers are.

I have been told that multiple layers are created from the SVG file and 
I know which layer I want that contains the vector plots.

Can anyone help me with this?

- Dave

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }

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Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 19:33:26 -0500
Subject: Reverse compass
From: Dwight Livingston 

Larry

Hi, hope you are doing well. I am entering survey and have a suggestion. 
Sometimes we get double front sights in the data. The F7 key (Flip 
Azimuth) seems to only work on the Comp1 value. It'd be nice to have a 
key to flip Comp2. Or maybe you could have a key that'd flip whatever 
cell is highlighted.

Thanks

Dwight

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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 14:36:03 -0700
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Reverse compass
From: "Larry" 

Hi Dwight,

These are good suggestion. I've made the changes you requested and there is
a new version on the internet.

1. The Editor now has two new tool bar buttons for reversing the Back
Azimuth and Back Inclination. The reverse back azimuth option can also be
activated by pressing Shift-F7. The reverse back inclination option can also
be activated by pressing Shift-F8.

2. The Reverse Shots tool now supports reversing the back azimuth and back
inclination. This option can reverse a large block of data all at once. It
is accessible by selecting the "Block-Reverse Shots" option from the menu
bar.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 5:33 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Reverse compass

Larry

Hi, hope you are doing well. I am entering survey and have a suggestion. 
Sometimes we get double front sights in the data. The F7 key (Flip 
Azimuth) seems to only work on the Comp1 value. It'd be nice to have a 
key to flip Comp2. Or maybe you could have a key that'd flip whatever 
cell is highlighted.

Thanks

Dwight

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }

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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 20:49:31 -0500
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Reverse compass
From: Dwight Livingston 

Thanks very much, Larry. That's great.

Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy SAr 6.
-------- Original message --------From: "'Larry' [email protected] [compass-users]"  Date: 11/14/16  4:36 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [compass-users] Reverse compass 

A�

Hi Dwight,

These are good suggestion. I've made the changes you
requested and there is a new version on the internet.

1. The Editor now has two new tool bar buttons for reversing
the Back Azimuth and Back Inclination. The reverse back azimuth option can also
be activated by pressing Shift-F7. The reverse back inclination option can also
be activated by pressing Shift-F8.

2. The Reverse Shots tool now supports reversing the back
azimuth and back inclination. This option can reverse a large block of data all
at once. It is accessible by selecting the "Block-Reverse Shots"
option from the menu bar.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Larry

A�

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 

Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016
5:33 PM

To: Larry Fish

Subject: [compass-users] Reverse
compass

A�

A� 

Larry

Hi, hope you are doing well. I am entering survey and have a suggestion. 

Sometimes we get double front sights in the data. The F7 key (Flip 

Azimuth) seems to only work on the Comp1 value. It'd be nice to have a 

key to flip Comp2. Or maybe you could have a key that'd flip whatever 

cell is highlighted.

Thanks

Dwight

nt�#��#�

Thanks very much, Larry. That's great.Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy SAr 6.-------- Original message --------From: "'Larry' [email protected] [compass-users]" <[email protected]> Date: 11/14/16  4:36 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [compass-users] Reverse compass 
 

Hi Dwight,

These are good suggestion. I've made the changes you
requested and there is a new version on the internet.

1. The Editor now has two new tool bar buttons for reversing
the Back Azimuth and Back Inclination. The reverse back azimuth option can also
be activated by pressing Shift-F7. The reverse back inclination option can also
be activated by pressing Shift-F8.

2. The Reverse Shots tool now supports reversing the back
azimuth and back inclination. This option can reverse a large block of data all
at once. It is accessible by selecting the "Block->Reverse Shots"
option from the menu bar.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Larry

 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016
5:33 PM
To: Larry Fish
Subject: [compass-users] Reverse
compass

 

  

Larry

Hi, hope you are doing well. I am entering survey and have a suggestion. 
Sometimes we get double front sights in the data. The F7 key (Flip 
Azimuth) seems to only work on the Comp1 value. It'd be nice to have a 
key to flip Comp2. Or maybe you could have a key that'd flip whatever 
cell is highlighted.

Thanks

Dwight

?�< ?�< @

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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 14:02:59 -0700
Subject: Recent Compass Updates
From: "Larry" 

In case you missed them, there have been several improvement to Compass over
the last six months. Here is a list:

1. Viewer - 7-9-16 The KML export option now supports outputting lines
instead of passage model polygons. This reduces the file size by about seven
times, which is useful for large caves or displaying kml files in
applications that are slow.

2. Project Manager - 9-1-16. The Project Manager now has a special tool
specifically designed to export data to Excel Spreadsheets.

3. Viewer - 10-22-16. The Viewer now supports selectively plotting sections
and surveys using dotted/dashed lines. There is also the option of
generating custom line patterns.

4. Viewer - 10-22-16. The Viewer now automatically updates the display
whenever a change has been made to the Complex settings. Computers are now
fast enough so that updating the display takes less than a second, even for
largest caves. The option can be disabled for slow computers.

5. Editor - 11-14-16. The Editor now has tool bar buttons for reversing the
Back Azimuth and Back Inclination. It also the "Reverse Tool" supports
reversing the Back Azimuth and Back Inclination.

6. Editor - 11-28-16. Fixed a bug that caused problems entering the
declination values.

7. Editor - 11-28-16. Fixed a bug that prevented the import of some Pocket
Topo files.

8. Viewer - 12-9-16. Added a feature that allows shots that have been
flagged for exclusion from closure to be highlighted.

The latest version is up on the internet. Remember, Compass registrations
are not time-limited. Any registered Compass user is free to download the
latest version. 

Larry Fish

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Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 16:20:54 +0100
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Recent Compass Updates
From: "Paul De Bie" 

Hi Larry,

Great work, once again! Thank you very much.

About exporting to KML: shots that are flagged as excluded from plotting are plotted in the KML.
Could you change this behaviour, or make it a user option? Because it often results in non-realistic
KML files. Most of the time, this option is used for surface surveying between two entrances. It is
logical that, if we don't want to see certain shots in the viewer, we don't want to see them in the
KML neither.

And point 8 is also a useful one and it makes me remember a suggestion of mine (but that was very
difficult for you to implement): being able to show shots that were excluded from being counted in
the cave length (so the "L" flag) in a different color. Still no way to do this?

Cheers and thanks again for your excellent software)

Paul De Bie

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 10:03 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Recent Compass Updates

In case you missed them, there have been several improvement to Compass over the last six months.
Here is a list:

1. Viewer - 7-9-16 The KML export option now supports outputting lines instead of passage model
polygons. This reduces the file size by about seven times, which is useful for large caves or
displaying kml files in applications that are slow.

2. Project Manager - 9-1-16. The Project Manager now has a special tool specifically designed to
export data to Excel Spreadsheets.

3. Viewer - 10-22-16. The Viewer now supports selectively plotting sections and surveys using
dotted/dashed lines. There is also the option of generating custom line patterns.

4. Viewer - 10-22-16. The Viewer now automatically updates the display whenever a change has been
made to the Complex settings. Computers are now fast enough so that updating the display takes less
than a second, even for largest caves. The option can be disabled for slow computers.

5. Editor - 11-14-16. The Editor now has tool bar buttons for reversing the Back Azimuth and Back
Inclination. It also the "Reverse Tool" supports reversing the Back Azimuth and Back Inclination.

6. Editor - 11-28-16. Fixed a bug that caused problems entering the declination values.

7. Editor - 11-28-16. Fixed a bug that prevented the import of some Pocket Topo files.

8. Viewer - 12-9-16. Added a feature that allows shots that have been flagged for exclusion from
closure to be highlighted.

The latest version is up on the internet. Remember, Compass registrations are not time-limited. Any
registered Compass user is free to download the latest version. 

Larry Fish

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

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Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 02:00:40 -0700
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Recent Compass Updates
From: "Larry" 

Hi Paul,

You caught me at good time since I had already been working on that part of
the code. As a result, I've made the following changes:

1. The KML export now allows you to  turn hidden lines on and off. There was
already a check box at the bottom of the Exporter that enabled and disabled
hidden lines, but it wasn't connected to the KML exporter. That has now been
fixed.

2. There is now a new option that highlights shots that have been excluded
from length calculations. The option is enabled by selecting the
"Display-Show-Show Length Excluded Shots" from the Viewer menu bar.

The new version is on the internet. Let me know what you think.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Recent Compass Updates

Hi Larry,

Great work, once again! Thank you very much.

About exporting to KML: shots that are flagged as excluded from plotting are
plotted in the KML. Could you change this behaviour, or make it a user
option? Because it often results in non-realistic KML files. Most of the
time, this option is used for surface surveying between two entrances. It is
logical that, if we don't want to see certain shots in the viewer, we don't
want to see them in the KML neither.

And point 8 is also a useful one and it makes me remember a suggestion of
mine (but that was very difficult for you to implement): being able to show
shots that were excluded from being counted in the cave length (so the "L"
flag) in a different color. Still no way to do this?

Cheers and thanks again for your excellent software)

Paul De Bie

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 10:03 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Recent Compass Updates

In case you missed them, there have been several improvement to Compass over
the last six months. Here is a list:

1. Viewer - 7-9-16 The KML export option now supports outputting lines
instead of passage model polygons. This reduces the file size by about seven
times, which is useful for large caves or displaying kml files in
applications that are slow.

2. Project Manager - 9-1-16. The Project Manager now has a special tool
specifically designed to export data to Excel Spreadsheets.

3. Viewer - 10-22-16. The Viewer now supports selectively plotting sections
and surveys using dotted/dashed lines. There is also the option of
generating custom line patterns.

4. Viewer - 10-22-16. The Viewer now automatically updates the display
whenever a change has been made to the Complex settings. Computers are now
fast enough so that updating the display takes less than a second, even for
largest caves. The option can be disabled for slow computers.

5. Editor - 11-14-16. The Editor now has tool bar buttons for reversing the
Back Azimuth and Back Inclination. It also the "Reverse Tool" supports
reversing the Back Azimuth and Back Inclination.

6. Editor - 11-28-16. Fixed a bug that caused problems entering the
declination values.

7. Editor - 11-28-16. Fixed a bug that prevented the import of some Pocket
Topo files.

8. Viewer - 12-9-16. Added a feature that allows shots that have been
flagged for exclusion from closure to be highlighted.

The latest version is up on the internet. Remember, Compass registrations
are not time-limited. Any registered Compass user is free to download the
latest version. 

Larry Fish

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }

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Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 11:47:59 +0100
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Recent Compass Updates
From: "Paul De Bie" 

Hi Larry,

Super! It's working OK. I've tested it on some files. The KML export is working as In had hoped for.
The "view Length excluded shots" is terrific. I'll have to review all of my survey files. I've
already seen that here and there I've excluded shots that should have been counted (or the other way
around). 

Many thanks

Paul De Bie

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 10:01 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Recent Compass Updates

Hi Paul,

You caught me at good time since I had already been working on that part of the code. As a result,
I've made the following changes:

1. The KML export now allows you to  turn hidden lines on and off. There was already a check box at
the bottom of the Exporter that enabled and disabled hidden lines, but it wasn't connected to the
KML exporter. That has now been fixed.

2. There is now a new option that highlights shots that have been excluded from length calculations.
The option is enabled by selecting the "Display-Show-Show Length Excluded Shots" from the Viewer
menu bar.

The new version is on the internet. Let me know what you think.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Recent Compass Updates

Hi Larry,

Great work, once again! Thank you very much.

About exporting to KML: shots that are flagged as excluded from plotting are plotted in the KML.
Could you change this behaviour, or make it a user option? Because it often results in non-realistic
KML files. Most of the time, this option is used for surface surveying between two entrances. It is
logical that, if we don't want to see certain shots in the viewer, we don't want to see them in the
KML neither.

And point 8 is also a useful one and it makes me remember a suggestion of mine (but that was very
difficult for you to implement): being able to show shots that were excluded from being counted in
the cave length (so the "L" flag) in a different color. Still no way to do this?

Cheers and thanks again for your excellent software)

Paul De Bie

From: [email protected] [ 
mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 10:03 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Recent Compass Updates

In case you missed them, there have been several improvement to Compass over the last six months.
Here is a list:

1. Viewer - 7-9-16 The KML export option now supports outputting lines instead of passage model
polygons. This reduces the file size by about seven times, which is useful for large caves or
displaying kml files in applications that are slow.

2. Project Manager - 9-1-16. The Project Manager now has a special tool specifically designed to
export data to Excel Spreadsheets.

3. Viewer - 10-22-16. The Viewer now supports selectively plotting sections and surveys using
dotted/dashed lines. There is also the option of generating custom line patterns.

4. Viewer - 10-22-16. The Viewer now automatically updates the display whenever a change has been
made to the Complex settings. Computers are now fast enough so that updating the display takes less
than a second, even for largest caves. The option can be disabled for slow computers.

5. Editor - 11-14-16. The Editor now has tool bar buttons for reversing the Back Azimuth and Back
Inclination. It also the "Reverse Tool" supports reversing the Back Azimuth and Back Inclination.

6. Editor - 11-28-16. Fixed a bug that caused problems entering the declination values.

7. Editor - 11-28-16. Fixed a bug that prevented the import of some Pocket Topo files.

8. Viewer - 12-9-16. Added a feature that allows shots that have been flagged for exclusion from
closure to be highlighted.

The latest version is up on the internet. Remember, Compass registrations are not time-limited. Any
registered Compass user is free to download the latest version. 

Larry Fish

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

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Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:05:00 -0600
Subject: Getting started with a new DAT file
From: David Gerboth 

Over the years, I been having problems getting started with a new DAT 
file. What is the proper procedure to do this? What I have been doing is 
Create a new survey file. It asks for the first survey and I provide the 
first survey name. It then asks for the new name for the DAT file. I 
provide that. I then can get started adding shots to the survey. When I 
try to save current file, I get an error message stating the file name 
already exists and will not save any of my data. I have been going 
around in circles trying to save the file and in most cases lose all of 
the data I typed in. Finally for some unknown reason to me, it finally 
saves after several tries and I am fine after that adding data and more 
surveys to the file. What am I doing wrong?

- Dave

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Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 22:18:54 -0700
Subject: RE: [compass-users] Getting started with a new DAT file
From: "Larry" 

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your email. I tried to duplicate the problem you described, but I
couldn't do it. I also haven't had any other complaints about a similar
problem, although sometimes bugs can exist for years before some one trips
over them. 

Normally, if the file already exists, Compass will offer the option of
overwriting the existing file. You also should be able to use the "Save As"
option to save it under another name. That way, you wouldn't lose any data.

From your description, I'm not sure if the problem is occurring in the
Project Manager or the Editor. It sounds like you are generating the new
file in the project manager and then entering data in the Editor. That would
imply the problem is occurring in the Editor. 

Could you give me the exact sequence of events that causes the problem?
Don't leave out any details. You may be doing something that I haven't
anticipated and that one step is causing the problem. For example, a few
years back a Compass user kept complaining about a problem that I couldn't
duplicate. It took five or six email exchanges before he told me that he was
saving the data to floppy disk. Once I tried it on a floppy, I was able to
duplicate and fix the problem.

Larry

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2016 8:05 PM
Subject: [compass-users] Getting started with a new DAT file

Over the years, I been having problems getting started with a new DAT 
file. What is the proper procedure to do this? What I have been doing is 
Create a new survey file. It asks for the first survey and I provide the 
first survey name. It then asks for the new name for the DAT file. I 
provide that. I then can get started adding shots to the survey. When I 
try to save current file, I get an error message stating the file name 
already exists and will not save any of my data. I have been going 
around in circles trying to save the file and in most cases lose all of 
the data I typed in. Finally for some unknown reason to me, it finally 
saves after several tries and I am fine after that adding data and more 
surveys to the file. What am I doing wrong?

- Dave